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Offline florian ciupitu

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Re: Everything under the sun according to elements (Bazi)
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2015, 10:14:31 PM »
Hi All,

I somehow have seen some different grouping of number in representation of elements in Bazi, which are..

Water = 1  &  6
Fire      = 2  &  7
Wood   = 3  &  8
Metal   = 4  &  9
Earth   = 5  &  0 (or 10?)

May I ask if the above method is correct or not?

Please help......


For me, Master Li Juming's methods have been (so far) working for me.



I begin to understand this method. It is really very simple and very effective compared with other . In fact that's the purpose of Chinese metaphysics , simple and effective .

Offline Jlim

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  • Re: Everything under the sun according to elements (Bazi)
    « Reply #31 on: July 25, 2015, 11:10:40 PM »
    I somehow have seen some different grouping of number in representation of elements in Bazi, which are..

    Water = 1  &  6
    Fire      = 2  &  7
    Wood   = 3  &  8
    Metal   = 4  &  9
    Earth   = 5  &  0 (or 10?)

    Good point, Decha_woo, your set is the five-element numbers of Hetu 河图, which is fundamental in many fields of Chinese Metaphysics, and not only Bazi.  Please refer to the topic Hetu

    In Feng Shui, for example Flying Star or Xuan Kong Fei Xing, and Xuan Kong Da Gua, the above numbers are actually used. For example in Xuang Kong Da Gua date selection, having the Water combination is auspicious, namely having the number 1 & 6 coming together in the date structure.  Similarly, it's also auspicious if the date structure has Fire combination (2 & 7), Wood combination (3 & 8), or Metal Combination (4 & 9).  Note that numbers 5 and 10 are not used in XKDG.

    Thanks for putting this table up.
    The number associations however seem to be a bit unorthodox.
    How are the associations of the alphabetical letters derived anybody knows?
    I agree, Li Juming's way of assigning the five elements to numbers is something uncommon or unorthodox.

    That is unorthodox? Actually if you notice, he was going by the Heavenly Stems:

    Jia = 1 , A
    Yi = 2 , B
    Bing = 3 , C
    Ding = 4 , D
    and so on...

    Yes, I agree with this, Art.  However, I do wonder, is there any branch of CM that actually applies such elemental assignment of 1 and 2 as Wood, 3 and 4 as Fire, 5 and 6 as Earth, 7 and 8 as Metal, 9 and 0 as Water, just like Mr. Li  wrote?

    Offline ArtofFugue

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  • Re: Everything under the sun according to elements (Bazi)
    « Reply #32 on: July 25, 2015, 11:27:50 PM »
    In Flying Star fengshui and Eight Mansions, the numbers are different from what Master Li and Hetu have: 1 = water, 2 = earth, 3 & 4 are wood, 5 is earth and so...

    What I found was here, it mentions in "Chinese strokes for auspicious name" that they follow numbers by Heavenly Stems, like what Master Li have done.

    I conclude numbers mean different things in different CM methods. If we were to dig out all the differences of all sects/schools, it would be endless and out-of-topic with this thread.


    edit: XKDG is another different league itself.
    « Last Edit: July 25, 2015, 11:31:25 PM by ArtofFugue »
    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

    Offline Jlim

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  • Re: Everything under the sun according to elements (Bazi)
    « Reply #33 on: July 25, 2015, 11:33:43 PM »
    In Flying Star fengshui and Eight Mansions, the numbers are different from what Master Li and Hetu have: 1 = water, 2 = earth, 3 & 4 are wood, 5 is earth and so...
    The above is also correct, because Flying Star analysis uses both Hetu numbers and Luoshu numbers. ;)  What you wrote above is based on the Luoshu square.

    Anyway, I just realize this topic is actually more for Bazi (based on the topic title)...
    « Last Edit: July 25, 2015, 11:36:10 PM by Jlim »

    Offline decha_woo

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  • Re: Everything under the sun according to elements (Bazi)
    « Reply #34 on: July 29, 2015, 06:04:47 PM »
    Hi Jlim,

    Thank you very much for your help.

    I was just told the set of numbers without any explanation or reason, but for recitation. When seeing a totally different set of those numbers, I felt very confused.

    I have to confess that except the word "Bazi" in your explanation, I really have no idea about the others, like hetu, Xuan Kong Fei Xing, XKDG, etc. I assume they would be among Chinese Metaphysics as well... Maybe some other time.... in a very long future..  :-\
    Do not overestimate power of destiny ....

    It cannot govern the way you choose to feel contented with what you are destined for....

    Offline ArtofFugue

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  • Re: Everything under the sun according to elements (Bazi)
    « Reply #35 on: September 19, 2015, 12:43:42 PM »
    hi Arto,

    thank you so much for your effort.

    but thru our bazi chart, identifying the favourable or unfavourable elements become tough after this author claimed that only 2% of bazi practioners will get it right......
    google cheongsoonhaur

    thanks again

    May I ask "right" in what ways? "Right" as in accordance to the author's teachings which he learnt from a particular sect/school of thought? If not in accordance to what he was taught, would it be considered "wrong"?

    In CM, I'm not particular about "right" or "wrong". I'm more concerned about what is working for me and what is not. I'm more concerned about results and experience.

    When I'm with my unfavourable elements, I feel drained of energy, uneasy or "not myself" that day. On an average year, month and day, I would experience small inconveniences and problems when I'm with things of my unfavourable elements. That was when years BEFORE I even started learning Bazi and its favourable & unfavourable elements (FUFE).

    I don't know about you nor the author, but I'm still going to practice FUFE for my entire life. You or he may choose not to follow if FUFE is totally not working for you/him. That's fine with me, people is entitled to choose which method that is working for them.

    ------------------------------

    edit: Just saying, in case anyone decides to take this to the "extreme", I notice there are some extremist people around.

    For example, if water is someone's unfavourable element and fire is favourable, does that mean the person must not drink water at all? What the book recommend is that for such case, the person can drink milo, coffee, ovaltine...etc. If he/she has to drink water, make sure it is hot or warm at least.
    « Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 12:59:11 PM by ArtofFugue »
    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

    Offline Owlbear

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  • Re: Everything under the sun according to elements (Bazi)
    « Reply #36 on: January 09, 2016, 11:47:26 PM »
    I do like that they have placed Mirror in Metal. :)
    (this is long topic, but my point of view is the same, long to explain)

    Quote
    Elements of certain items might vary from master to master. Practice what you feel is relevant and comfortable, but don’t discriminate.

    Yea, of course, still have to say some of the difference here with the usual representations are very big.

    For example Stomach as Metal here, while in classic of difficulties and in almost every other place I have seen(not to mention practice), stomach is always Earth.

    So of course there may be difference from master to master, however it's nice to note, about some differences from the accepted representations in Classic of Difficulties(accepted as a foundation for most of these), so if people find some CM practice doesn't seem to work, they can find more info an adjust.

    I don't think most practices and systems will work with Stomach associated to Metal, or Large Intestine associated to Water as it is here.

    It's all good of course, and I do admire the bold move of changing the accepted representations that are based on The Classic of Difficulties, however the fact that no one else changes them, may be for a reason. ;)

    Offline ArtofFugue

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  • Re: Everything under the sun according to elements (Bazi)
    « Reply #37 on: November 22, 2016, 05:59:46 AM »
    I was alerted that a famous author said that favourable and unfavourable elements don't mean the actual element itself and this method of using favourable elements is "wrong".

    As mentioned previously, in the CM world, it is common to find practitioners disagreeing with another practitioner's practice/methods/teachings/theories and saying that is "wrong", "unreliable", "unauthentic" while self-proclaiming their own as the "correct" and "authentic" version. Those bad-mouthing practitioners then quote tons of reasonings, theories and case studies to back their claims. It is common to see such behaviours in the CM world. Both sides have their own reasons and cases to back their claims.

    I can only say, what this CM world needs is mutual respect and tolerance of methods and teachings which are different from what one has learnt or been practicing. No practitioner has the right to say another school/method/practitioner is "wrong", one is only entitled to choose what is working for oneself. What is working for me doesn't mean it is working for you. Just because something is not working for you doesn't mean it is "wrong", it may work for other people.

    No one size fits all:


    Mutual respect:
    « Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 12:06:53 AM by ArtofFugue »
    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

    Offline tyc

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  • Re: Everything under the sun according to elements (Bazi)
    « Reply #38 on: November 22, 2016, 06:19:14 AM »
    This isn't happening just in this area.  This type of issue is happening everywhere.  We just have to honest with our OWN opinions and hopefully find the truth behind all these creative ideas. 

    For me, its difficult to understand what is right or wrong right now.  Then again, I have a open mind and will read whatever people are willing to offer.  Afterward, then decide if I should continue to follow the recommendation.  Nothing is learn without first accepting someone's thought first.
    If everything in life is measurable, then understanding destiny would be as simple as counting 1, 2, and 3.

    Offline ArtofFugue

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  • Re: Everything under the sun according to elements (Bazi)
    « Reply #39 on: November 22, 2016, 06:23:43 AM »
    @tyc : As you go deeper into CM, you'll find many different sects and schools of thoughts, especially in ZWDS.

    To tell you the truth, there is no "right" or "wrong" in CM. There are only what is working for you and what is not working for you. Let your own experience be your guide. Don't just let people tell you.
    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

    Offline tyc

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  • Re: Everything under the sun according to elements (Bazi)
    « Reply #40 on: November 22, 2016, 06:39:08 AM »
    ArtofFugue

    Thanks for the advise.  I'll keep that in mind.
    If everything in life is measurable, then understanding destiny would be as simple as counting 1, 2, and 3.

    Offline ArtofFugue

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  • Re: Everything under the sun according to elements (Bazi)
    « Reply #41 on: March 20, 2017, 10:43:53 PM »
    Some time ago I received a question from a querent, his favourable element is also Fire, like me, he asked how to implement Fire element into his life? Should he suntan everyday for 12 hours and wear red 24 hours a day 7 days a week?

    The master who advised him like that is entitled to his own interpretations and practice. No disrespect please. But if I were the master, I would suggest to querent something different and less extreme like to wear amethyst beads on his left hand or wear amethyst pendant necklace. Amethyst is Fire element. Also adjustable to personal preferences, eg; if you don’t like purple, you can choose other red or orange colour crystals like ruby or garnet. No hard and fast rule.

    Diet is also one of the ways to implement a certain favourable element into your life. See below thread: http://fivearts.info/fivearts/index.php?topic=13784.0

    It’s also adjustable to your diet preference.

    If you’re not health-conscious, you can eat curry, BBQ, fried food often...etc.

    If you’re health-conscious, you can eat carrot, red apple, milo, tomato, red wine often...etc. In fact for me, Master Li also advised in a youtube video, a stick of carrot will boost one's luck almost immediately after eating (if fire is favourable). I found it to be true too. I sometimes pack a lunch box of cut carrot.

    But take note, this is not “miraculous cure”, like fengshui, it only helps abit. Your freedom, if you don't want this bit of help also can. The majority of your life is still influenced by karma.
    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

    Offline LuckyStars1

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  • Re: Everything under the sun according to elements (Bazi)
    « Reply #42 on: June 25, 2017, 10:06:29 PM »
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    Offline ArtofFugue

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  • Re: Everything under the sun according to elements (Bazi)
    « Reply #43 on: June 25, 2017, 10:44:20 PM »
    @LuckyStars1 : Not specified in the book, would you like to drop Master Lee an email and let us know?
    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

    Offline ArtofFugue

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  • Re: Everything under the sun according to elements (Bazi)
    « Reply #44 on: February 21, 2018, 02:45:42 PM »
    Master Yuan Shushan had used real-life physical Water element to remedy an unfavourable Metal decade during his age 50s.

    Quote
    Yuan was among a number of diviners who made predictions about their own fate.

    In his "Ming Li Tan Yuan" text, he wrote that he was born of Wood, but surrounded in four directions by Metal from the year, month, day and hour of birth. Wood would require Water to make it grow and strengthen it while dissipating Metal at the same time, or more Wood to support it. Alternatively or concurrently, Fire could be there to suppress the Metal.

    His prediction was that in the year 1931, upon reaching age of 50, the Metal year would become a menace to his life and end his career. Before the time came, he wound up his lucrative practice and withdrew from public life to a tiny island at Zhenjiang in Jiangsu province.

    The fated day passed without incident. Yuan then re-emerged and started his business once again. Nobody criticized him for not dying on the appointed day; instead he became more famous than before for being able to avert calamity by surrounding himself with Water on an island to guard against the force of Metal.
    His Bazi chart as below:





     - - -  1 - - - - - - 11 - - - - - 21 - - - - - - 31 - - - - - 41 - - - - - - 51 - - - - - - 61 - - - - - 71




    Source: Chinese Mathematical Astrology, pg 138



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    Re: Everything under the sun according to elements (Bazi)
    « Reply #44 on: February 21, 2018, 02:45:42 PM »
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