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Messages - RenSpb

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Xin Wu Ji Wu
You Xu Wei Wu
LC Yi Mao

Please share your thoughts, at your convenience.
As an idea one of the tasks of Daymaster in the chart is to generate metal that is strong enough in the hour pillar. Xin has support inside You and Xu. Sure the earth dominates but there is output to release the energy. No drop of water element, not flexible person. Kui gang Daymaster with strong competition inside the chart that is not controlled.

Hello Silmaril!
I was just wondering wether it is a negative or a positive thing.

Let's say day pillar is Gui Mao and it comes an year Gui Mao. Is it a good year or a bad year for the person? What does it mean to come year or month pillar that are the same as a pillar from the birth chart? It probably depends on the chart - if it is a strong or a weak one. Is it more dangerous if it is a weak one and DM has weak qi? Does it matter if it doubles the Hour, Day, Month or Year pillars from the birth chart?

I am trying to experiment with charts and readings and I often stumble in such cases where an year or a month pillar that comes are the same as a pillar from the birth chart.


One may search for "Fu Yin" cases on this forum, e.g.:


Hi cleocleo!

Hello everyone, I am new to Bazi. I am trying to learn more and have read books by Benson Yeo, Kevin Chan and Joey Yap since these are the only english books commonly available. I have been trying to find out more information on Special Structures, particularly Follower Wealth (cong cai ge) structures but most of these books only make a light mention of the existence of such structures but do not go into it.

I read somewhere that Follower Wealth Structures should be treated as a strong DM structure and therefore the following gods should be the favorable gods.  : Direct and Indirect Wealth, Eating God and Hurting Officer and Direct Officer and Seven Killings. Is my understanding correct?

Also, what are the characteristics of people with Follower Wealth Structures?

I would be grateful for any insights and assistance on this area from the experienced and knowledgeable seniors in this forum!  :D

The Follower Wealth Structure may be considered e.g. by means of 10 god analysys. So DW, IW or both are prominent in this case. Because you are familiar with the books by Benson Yeo, Kevin Chan and Joey Yap, these contain a lot info about 10 gods, especially JY books (for example "10 Gods", BaZi Profiling Series, Structural Useful Gods Reference).

I read somewhere that Follower Wealth Structures should be treated as a strong DM structure and therefore the following gods should be the favorable gods.  : Direct and Indirect Wealth, Eating God and Hurting Officer and Direct Officer and Seven Killings. Is my understanding correct?

To follow means DM is so week that it surrender to the most strong and prominent qi or element in the chart. Definitely there are some conditions and rules when this Structure has been formed. In some cases it brings succes to the chart owner, otherwise no. It might be like a bank cashier who has a lot of money going through but doesn't own it.

Hi Jacks!
Thanks everyone for the contribution,

Forgive me but I'm having a hard time to find those posts. I will greatly appreciate if you can point them for me. About the baziqueen info, that is interesting. There are some things which are not fitting for me, so I'm searching for a proper explanation of how this actually works.
1. There is one intriguing post/reply from Master Jo Ching on facebook saying the Chen is the graveyard of water and Chou the graveyard of metal (not the storage)
2. The three harmony would make sense to have the birth, peak and the death to be in balance/harmony. So the storage being part of it doesn't make the click. But the Graveyard/Death would make the balance just right.

All these from above are leading to the idea that Chou is the storage of Water (storing the excess water from the Winter) and Chen the storage of Wood (storing the excess wood from the Spring) and Xu the Graveyard/Death of Fire which would complete the fire "harmony" with the "end" of an element.

Therefore I'll appreciate any inputs or directions over this subject to grasp the proper and correct view over it. If not posting into the right place, please accept my apologies.

Happy New Year!
There is one concept that might be interesting for you too - "Element inside TRAP".
So according to this aproach the following elements are considered in the trap but not the ones:
- Yi inside Chen;
- Ding inside Wei;
- Xin inside Xu;
- Kwei inside Chou.

There are difinite ways how to get out the own trap. It's in some extent similar to how to get element out Tomb. In some cases the low qi phases of elements  (8, 9, 10) are considered as a trap too.

Happy New Year!
Best wishes!

Hi jacks!
Hi everyone,

Can you please share some light on the following subject:

There are some that call tombs - graveyards and vice-versa.
For instance Chen being the Graveyard of Gui Water. Because it is said that in Chen this is the last trace left of the Winter Water. Somehow this is not what "Storage" idea would mean as the quantity would be not consistent. More appropriate to the "Tomb" idea.

So Graveyard of Gui water would mean - the "End" of the last trace of Water while  the "Prosperous" Gui Water in Chou would be more close to the "Storage" definition as it has still enough consistence and quantity to be considered as a "reserve" of water that is stashed in the Earth.

Please clarify this if possible.
Thank you

Here is info from than may help somehow too:

"So on to the topic at hand.

By way of preamble, let’s get the main source of confusion out of the way. The fundamental reason why there is a confusion over the term ‘Graveyard’ ‘ is a twofer:
a) Grave is one of the Stages in the 12 Stages. (‘Grave’ and ‘Graveyard’ obviously is easy to confuse)
b) Graveyard refers to both an Earthly Branch and also a position of an Element (i.e.: Yi Wood, Jia Wood etc)

Further, there is a lack of awareness that the 12 Stages/Phases is different for BaZi and Feng Shui practice. There are subtle differences in the application – a topic I will not address here so please ask someone else.
In my teaching and practice of BaZi, I do not use the 12 Stages/Phases. As such, when I use the term ‘Graveyard’, I am referring to it in the context of (b)

Now, back to the Graveyard.

The Graveyard as an Earthly Branch

Let’s make sure everyone is on the same page. There are 12 Earthly Branches and they correspond to what most people know as the Chinese Zodiac.  Now, the Chinese have a thing for categories, and in Metaphysics, there is a particular tendency to like over-lapping categories. So, something seemingly innocent like 12 Earthly Branches can spawn multiple categories. An Earthly
Branch as such can be

a) a mere Zodiac Animal
b) belong to a Season (Spring/Summer/Autumn/Winter)
c) Be part of a Combination (Three Harmony/Six Harmony)
d) Be part of an Interaction (Punishment/Harm/Destruction)
e) Carry a Shen Sha reference (Peach Blossom/Travelling Star/Graveyard (ah-ha))
For the purposes of this article, we are looking at (e).

Four of the Earthly Branches are categorised as Graveyards: they are Dragon, Goat, Dog, Ox. (辰,未,戌,丑)
They are classified as Graveyards because it is in these four Earthly Branches that an ELEMENT comes to an end as it were.

Distinguishing the Branch and the Element

The best way to distinguish between referring to a Graveyard Earthly Branch and the Element in the Graveyard is in the terminology. Typically, “Graveyard” references the Earthly Branch whereas “Enters Graveyard” references the Element that is within the Graveyard Earthly Branch that has come to an end.

Now, at this stage, most people with some knowledge and understanding will note that the Graveyard Earthly Branches all have two Sub-Qi Elements. For example in Dragon, there is Gui Water and Yi Wood as the Sub Qi. In Goat, there is Ding Fire and Yi Wood as the Sub Qi.

Only one Sub-Qi element ENTERS THE GRAVEYARD. The other Sub-Qi element is in STORAGE. (ah-ha, take two).

Now, refer back to the above list. An Earthly Branch can be categorised in multiple ways.  Most people never realise that a Three Harmony Combination comprises of 1 Travelling Star, one Cardinal (Peach Blossom) and 1 Graveyard. The reason for the Graveyard’s presence is the STORAGE element, in the same way the reason for the Travelling Star’s presence is the element in Growth. That is why the Three Harmony combination is regarded as superior to six harmony because it comprises of the

Branches that carry that the Element produced by the Combination in three forms:
– Growth (defined as an element that has yet to reach its nadir and thus, is in ascent),
– Cardinal (defined as an element at its purest – notice all Cardinals are the peak of their respective seasons)
– Graveyard (specifically, the element in STORAGE, which represents the insurance policy of the element as it were)

Example: Fire Frame Combination comprises of 寅, 午 and 戌. Tiger is the Growth of Bing Fire. Horse is the purest form of Fire Qi, being the peak of the season of Summer. Xu is the Storage of Fire.

Significance of Growth/Graveyard/Storage

I love Growth, Graveyard and Storage Earthly Branches because they give a lot of bang for buck. Here’s how.

– Growth tells me what a person’s potential in the future is. It references a skill that may well be unknown to the person (some people are obtuse, without being dumb – there is a difference). But more often, the Growth Star represents a skill/talent or gift in the person that with some encouragement – and I really mean, a little bit is all you  need – has the potential to become great or very significant in the future. Of course, we love Wealth, Officer and Output in Growth for obvious reasons.

– Graveyard tells me what the person’s secrets are, and what are the things in their life that must come to an end or have come to an end. The presence of multiple graveyards always means a person with plenty of personal secrets. As much as people think this is a no-brainer (so what if they are secretive), it’s amazing how many people NEVER REALISE someone is secretive. Thus is the power of the Earthly Branches. The theoretical knowledge of Graveyard, specifically knowing WHICH ELEMENT ENTERS GRAVEYARD IN WHICH EARTHLY BRANCH, is usually also used to forecast if someone who is ill and elderly is likely to survive the year.

– Storage tells you what is in the person’s personal pantry as it were, but also references hidden skills which the person genuinely may not be aware they possess. Personally, I don’t put much credence on skills  in storage – they take far too long to come out without the help of a combination. However, we do like Wealth in STORAGE (but not Wealth Entering Graveyard).

To avoid persistent questions, here is the down and out of what element is truly in GRAVEYARD (meaning, comes to an end). Fr the technically obsessed, the way to derive the answer (because knowing why is important) is simple: the element that enters the Graveyard is the element that belongs to the season of the Graveyard Earthly Branch.

Dragon: Yi Wood in Graveyard.
Goat: Ding Fire in Graveyard
Dog: Xin Metal in Graveyard
Ox: Gui Water in Graveyard."


Hello Silmaril!

From what I can see, not very good ones. She doesn't have the element she produces at all and it doesn't come in the 10 LP either. No Hurting officer and too much of the Resource ones.
Yes, she doesn't have ouput element. Nonetheless her chart will go on wood side (Chen, Mao, Tiger) that support childbirth. Most likely Jia Chen Luck Pillar (17-27 years old) would be good to birth a child. HS Jia is "Eating god", there is some chance that a girl can be born. It is also necessary to take into account the coming years within the Luck Pillar. As to Indirect Resourse it is under control in the chart.

Does it mean that she will not have children?  :( Or does it mean that she can not produce it naturally but might have with IVF? In order for IVF to work, she should be able to bear it and give birth, but can she do that with this chart? It seems pretty negative to me ...
The use of IVF is mostly an extreme situation when there are serious problems with the female reproductive organs, for example, fallopian tubes are surgically removed or an ectopic pregnancy occurs.
If her female health is in good condition, she will be able to give birth to a child.

Hey Silmaril!

Some thoughts about the chart:

I see that my DM is Water, so I suppose that Wood is the element I produce. Indeed in 2014 came Wood in the year and I got a child. It was not an easy pregnancy and the baby was not having good time in the womb. But despite all problems, the baby came out alive. In 2017 was Fire and it destroys my Water DM. Yet I had a pregnancy and gave birth that went fine for the baby, but not fine for me at all. I had huge complications during pregnancy and especially during birth.

Daymaster Gui was in a very low phase Jue (10) in 2014, not the best year for pregnancy. In addition, strong fire and wood did not support the reproductive system.
During 2017 there was Heaven and Earth clash Gui Mao - Ding You. The year probably was stressful one.
In general, in the chart strong Wood for Gui Mao is not very favorable for health. For support Resource is required, however IR is located in the year pillar. Besides Indirect Resourse is not ideal for pregnancy in the woman's BaZi.

I start to think that there is something generally wrong in my Ba Zi that unfavors children, pregnancies and giving birth. I try to figure out what it is and if there is any point to try for a third child.

There are some difficulties for childbearing, such as a daymaster duplicate in hour HS, and the Goat Blade. Have previous pregnancies been caesarean?
Potentially it may be at least 3 children. However, it depends on your female health status.



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Hi All,

Thank you @RenSpb for sharing..

Please, may I ask a precision..

Quote :
"3. The Lunar Calendar is more suited to the "on the spot" processes or Five Arts : Life systems"

What is included in "on the spot" process, and in "Life systems", terminology and context? please..

Best Regards


It would be better to ask Puppylove for explanation :) But there is another quote:

..So for those wondering, the same popular Date and Time construction method used in Mei Hua should be avoided when not attempting an "On the spot" type reading (to see the outlook of what will happen). Instead, the application of a "random chance" method such as use of coins to generate and build a Hexagram is better suited to how the Liu Yao system works...


This info might be helpfull:

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With regards to building a Hexagram using the Luni-Solar calender, I would be very cautious with it for both Mei Hua and Liu Yao, but especially Liu Yao...

...As for the actual use of the Lunar Calendar for the Month and Date during an Interpretation of the Hexagram reading, I can and will offer the following:

1. It is fine to use most of the time. But only if you exclusively utilise everything else with the Lunar calendar only. So you will not be a Bazi user is most aspects as it's quite often the Solar calendar. If you mix and match (calendar) the readings will go all over the place. There are reasons for this, but it is far too long for me to post up here or indeed in one go.

2. Typically the biggest issues encountered by Lunar calender users are New Year changes which can impact on important details in a reading. Again, this would normally impact on those who are using mix and match schools, eg. Bazi that uses Solar Calendar (at least 70% of users I'd say this would be the case) mixed with Liu Yao using the Lunar Calendar. Use of the Solar calendar bypasses this issue and why it is often the standard that is taught. It is NOT taught that the Lunar is wrong, only ineffeient under certain circumstances.

3. The Lunar Calendar is more suited to the "on the spot" processes or Five Arts : Life systems, rather than overall Five Arts : Divination. This is because generation of "on the spot" readings can utilise representations that are close and approximate to the actual date and time (month) during the Interpretation phase. But if you work out actual timings (again listed above in point 2), things like when the year starts and what danger lurks at the start of the year may be missed by users as for them, the change overs have not happened. Most of the time this isn't an issue, but for those moments when it is, unless you are working everything in Lunar, things start going out of alignment and risk possibilities of event occurance (good or bad depending on the reading) and the user won't be expecting them.

For convenience for users learning Liu Yao, I would recommend sticking with the Solar calendar. Unless you have exclusively learned to utilise the Lunar Calendar throughout your entire day to day life (ultra rare, I doubt there are more than 200 people on the planet who do, simply because of the increasingly reduced usage of the Lunar calendar in day to day life).

Hope that helps aid a bit for those who have questions.

Request for birth chart reading [FREE] / Re: General bazi reading + career
« on: February 08, 2021, 04:59:37 PM »
Hello sleepythyme!
I’d like to know if what I’m currently doing as a career is ok. I work in fintech. Plus I’m very new to this so anything else you can tell me would be helpful.
female 2 June 1980 GMT -5 (New York NY)
Finance, IT specialist in finance or accounting department is Ok. The chart is very dynamic thus variety is needed, new interesting projects, not too routine job. Manager position is also Ok. You need space to work without being overly restricted to unleash full potential.

Thank you! Are there other fields I could work in based on the dynamic nature of my chart? I agree with restrictions being my bane.
Do you know the hour of birth? Because it adds additional info about profession and fields of activity.
Search for vacancies where you are mentaly stimulated and have freedom of expression. You've got good people skills and natural ability for leadership, detail oriented.

Request for birth chart reading [FREE] / Re: General bazi reading + career
« on: February 04, 2021, 11:44:11 PM »
Hello sleepythyme!
I’d like to know if what I’m currently doing as a career is ok. I work in fintech. Plus I’m very new to this so anything else you can tell me would be helpful.
female 2 June 1980 GMT -5 (New York NY)
Finance, IT specialist in finance or accounting department is Ok. The chart is very dynamic thus variety is needed, new interesting projects, not too routine job. Manager position is also Ok. You need space to work without being overly restricted to unleash full potential.

My first child was born in 2013 (Gui Si) - Is this also reflected in the chart?
Sure. However it would be better looking at Luck Pillars too. Probably that luck period activated children palace.
Also the chart has strong wood (agressive output, boy as child element for Ren woman here) in the month pillar that corresponds about 18-40 years period.

But Chou also contain hidden stem Xin Metal - is this the spouse element of Yi Wood DM or must it be Geng Metal?
Honestly, I didn't got idea how Yi Wood DM corresponds to this chart.
For female Yi Wood DM it might be Geng or Xin depending on the situation in 4 pillars.


Miscellaneous topics / Re: What element is mathematics career?
« on: February 04, 2021, 10:24:31 PM »
Is mathematics a fire/water career, or a mix of both? What do you think?

If it is more of an analytics, calculation and thinking, then it can be attributed to the element of fire. Since mathematics uses precise structures and formulas, this is more related to metal.

Dear RenSpb,

thank you! 2017's key events : had a child in the first part of the year and had a key change in role (career) in the later part but more towards Jan 2018 (before the Lunar New Year).
All 4 pillars were in movement in 2017. A child was born and change in career due to Gui Mao hour and Ding Mao month pillars Ding You year clash. Besides Ren daymaster received support from Direct Resource Xin (You) for the child birth.

What do you mean by Day pillar Heaven & Earth combine structure?
Ren Ding (Heaven steams) + Chen You (Earth branches) combine in 2017.

Hi Renspb,

Thanks for the advice.
2020 Geng zi year was pretty ok in terms of career and health, but not so great in terms of relationship (spouse).
Thank you for replay. I assume this is week DM.

The 2017 was interesting year because it's day pillar Heaven and Earth combine structure. Were there any key events that year?

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