five arts forum

Chinese Five Arts => 3. Art of Life (Birthchart Analysis) => He Luo Li Shu (HLLS) 河洛理数 => Topic started by: metatronos on November 18, 2014, 05:07:35 AM

Title: HLLS Links
Post by: metatronos on November 18, 2014, 05:07:35 AM
Hi there!

Seems this field of HLLS here needs some help to get born  :)

Lately I have dived into the depths of HLLS. Here are links to some other freak´s websites:


Try and compare with other ways of divination!
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: George on November 18, 2014, 05:35:23 AM
Thanks for kickstarting this section. Young forum like this one needs you!
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: ren on November 18, 2014, 09:57:24 AM
Metatronos,

Great to see you here!!!

Looking forward to your voice & contributions.

ren
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: hmesker on November 18, 2014, 02:51:41 PM
Don't trust http://www.hall-of-man.com/ too much. Read this http://www.yjcn.nl/serendipity/archives/120-The-Fall-of-Man.html . The author of the website has flawed ideas about the calculations for True Local Time.

BTW, an English version of my Dutch Heluo Lishu (http://www.yjcn.nl/wp-nl/yijing-astrologie2/) book is in the making.
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: Administrator on November 18, 2014, 09:35:55 PM
@hmesker

welcome and congrats to your book project. Please update us when your book is available.
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: metatronos on November 19, 2014, 05:03:49 AM
Don't trust http://www.hall-of-man.com/ too much. Read this http://www.yjcn.nl/serendipity/archives/120-The-Fall-of-Man.html . The author of the website has flawed ideas about the calculations for True Local Time.

That´s true - correct time is absolutely necessary as firm basis for any form of calculation / divination.

That´s one of the nice things about HLLS: Simply take the Bazi = 8 characters of the chinese calender you might have calculated anyway. So the basis is really the same as in Bazi!
The difference: instead of looking for interactions / shi shen and so on you "simply" take the 8 characters in "raw format" and numerologically transform it into hexagrams.

I find that really fascinating: It shows you other facets of the same person. Great!

And in a way it´s so simple...  ;)
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: metatronos on November 19, 2014, 05:07:59 AM
By the way - thanks a lot for the warm welcome!  :)
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: metatronos on November 19, 2014, 05:24:23 AM
Don't trust http://www.hall-of-man.com/ too much. Read this http://www.yjcn.nl/serendipity/archives/120-The-Fall-of-Man.html . The author of the website has flawed ideas about the calculations for True Local Time.

Speaking about the very important topic "True Local Time":

My favourite to calculate it is the free program to be found at http://www.relativedata.com/time-zone-master (http://www.relativedata.com/time-zone-master).

It has only one problem - doesn´t run on Mac  ;D
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: ren on November 19, 2014, 11:52:44 AM
take the 8 characters in "raw format" and numerologically transform it into hexagrams.

Can you give an example, converting bazi to hexagrams and interpretation?

Thanks...
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: woodheaven on November 25, 2014, 04:55:42 AM
Hi all,

To get your birth hexagrams go to:

http://pp.qg108.com/hl.asp (this one is from the old fivearts forum, from Harmen Mesker)
http://cesuan.fututa.com/zhouyiyuncheng/

Both online HLLS(Heluo Lishu) calculators take Li Chun( 4-5 feb.) as the start of the (solar) year.

Another alternative is to download the "four pillars of wisdom" software:

http://astrologyofiching.com/

This software is based on the book "The Astrology of Ï Ching" by W.A. Sherrill and W.K. Shu.
Interpretations are also included for those who don't have this book.
Important to mention is that this software take the Winter Solstice(21-22 dec.) as the start of the year. This means that the birthdates between the Winter Solstice and Li Chun will have different birth hexagrams than those calculated from the two online calculators (above).
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: metatronos on November 25, 2014, 05:12:36 AM
Important to mention is that this software take the Winter Solstice(21-22 dec.) as the start of the year. This means that the birthdates between the Winter Solstice and Li Chun will have different birth hexagrams than those calculated from the two online calculators (above).

That´s a very important fact when doing calendar calculation or using calculators to change western into chinese calendar: Always check what rules apply!!!

According to Harmen´s research in original chinese texts there seems to be no hint to choose Winter Solstice for HLLS as the beginning of the year - unlike mentioned in the book "The Astrology of Ï Ching" by W.A. Sherrill and W.K. Shu.
It seems that they invented some "new ways" to do HLLS. Which is a nice and creative thing - but it would have been even nicer when they would have mentioned what was according to original sources and what was their own addition.
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: woodheaven on November 25, 2014, 11:59:36 PM
Yes, it is very strange that the authors did not cite any sources in their book.
More interesting is that they did mention in their other book "An Anthology of I Ching" on page 117:

"We ourselves feel that the weight of evidence indicates that it is best to use the winter solstice for I ching astrology, and Spring Begins(Li-Chun) when making predictions by the Tzu Pin( Ziping BaZi) method."

But where is the evidence that led to that "feel"? The nature of "that evidence" is even more interesting. No further explanation was given. There are no sources cited in this book.



 
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: metatronos on November 26, 2014, 05:19:09 AM
Can you give an example, converting bazi to hexagrams and interpretation?

Would you start by giving an example of Bazi you´d like to transform?  ;)
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: ren on November 26, 2014, 05:47:38 AM
Would you start by giving an example of Bazi you´d like to transform?  ;)

Barack Obama - 4 August 1961 at 19:24 (= 7:24 PM ) no DST

Thanks
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: metatronos on November 26, 2014, 05:52:51 AM
Nice try - you gave me his birth date, not his 8 characters  :)

Sorry, but I´m too lazy to check for Barack´s birth place, time correction,......   :-\
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: ren on November 26, 2014, 06:38:56 AM
See attached.
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: RapaNui on November 26, 2014, 06:19:07 PM
From the same : bazi-calculator.com
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: metatronos on November 30, 2014, 05:17:33 AM
Thank you guys for making it simple for me  :)

Having looked at the great site! "bazi-calculator.com" myself under ´Famous dates´ I get Obama´s time-EB as you instead of xu !? Why is that?
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: ren on November 30, 2014, 07:09:55 AM
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Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: RapaNui on November 30, 2014, 10:18:25 PM
OK !
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Meta, @RapaNui,

Database chart provided for President Obama has an incorrect time correction added.

Note time on chart: 18:47 RST (RST = (UTC+01:00) Brussels, Copenhagen, Madrid, Paris    Romance Standard Time).

...
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: Daeluin on December 04, 2014, 12:26:24 AM
Important to mention is that this software take the Winter Solstice(21-22 dec.) as the start of the year. This means that the birthdates between the Winter Solstice and Li Chun will have different birth hexagrams than those calculated from the two online calculators (above).

That´s a very important fact when doing calendar calculation or using calculators to change western into chinese calendar: Always check what rules apply!!!

According to Harmen´s research in original chinese texts there seems to be no hint to choose Winter Solstice for HLLS as the beginning of the year - unlike mentioned in the book "The Astrology of Ï Ching" by W.A. Sherrill and W.K. Shu.
It seems that they invented some "new ways" to do HLLS. Which is a nice and creative thing - but it would have been even nicer when they would have mentioned what was according to original sources and what was their own addition.

I recall a thread on fivearts.net HLLS section where Harmen asked for help translating a phrase related to this, which seemed to indicate the year starting at the winter solstice. But was not enough for me to understand what it meant.

In Ni Hua Ching's Book of Changes and the Unchanging Truth, is mentioned that during the time of the Yellow Emperor, the year started at the Winter Solstice, and later was revised to start at LiChun.

I do my calculations based on LiChun and regularly find very literal descriptions of people's lives, using the Sherrill & Chu line descriptions, which frequently impress me with their deep insight.
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: Daeluin on December 04, 2014, 12:35:31 AM
Also the monthly hexagram changes are very different as used by Sherrill & Chu, as compared with the LiChun systems.

Sherrill & Chu's utilize a monthly system of changes that very closely matches the flow of HHS, with four roughly 18 day earthly periods at the end of every season. While I was following this system, it resonated deeply.

But I haven't gotten the hang of the other way yet, which maps 1 hexagram to each month, resulting in daily line changes always being broken at the end of the month. I hope when Harmen's english translation is finished more light will be shed on this!
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: metatronos on December 07, 2014, 05:23:22 AM
Hi Daeluin!

Nice to to see another HLLS-user join the discussion!


In Ni Hua Ching's Book of Changes and the Unchanging Truth, is mentioned that during the time of the Yellow Emperor, the year started at the Winter Solstice, and later was revised to start at LiChun.

I do my calculations based on LiChun and regularly find very literal descriptions of people's lives, using the Sherrill & Chu line descriptions, which frequently impress me with their deep insight.

Same is true in my experience.

My guess why they changed the seemingly more original system: They tried to harmonize the calendar calculation with another yearly calendar used in HLLS / Yi Jing - which is the waxing and waning of Yin and Yang throughout the year -> expressed by the tidal hexagrams.
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: metatronos on December 07, 2014, 05:37:42 AM
Also the monthly hexagram changes are very different as used by Sherrill & Chu, as compared with the LiChun systems.

Sherrill & Chu's utilize a monthly system of changes that very closely matches the flow of HHS, with four roughly 18 day earthly periods at the end of every season. While I was following this system, it resonated deeply.

But I haven't gotten the hang of the other way yet, which maps 1 hexagram to each month, resulting in daily line changes always being broken at the end of the month. I hope when Harmen's english translation is finished more light will be shed on this!

I use the method described in Harmen´s book - with a variation in term´s of day hexagrams.

Sherrill & Chu´s way to fine-tune into the layers of months/days is quite complicated in my opinion. The "original" way is fairly easy and gives perfect results!

To sum up you can calculate a hexagram for each year, month and 5 day-hexagrams per month. Here comes my variation: Is see the 30 lines of day hexagrams as the 30 zodiac degress per solar month. Therefore you can easily calculate down to the day hexagrams by means of modern calculators = computers.
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: metatronos on December 07, 2014, 06:23:23 AM

Note time on chart: 18:47 RST (RST = (UTC+01:00) Brussels, Copenhagen, Madrid, Paris    Romance Standard Time).


So here comes the HLLS results for Barrack for the time of 18:47 = you pillar.

Please note that RST means Real Solar Time (RST) in http://bazi-calculator.com. Thanks that Barrack was quick enough to be born before 23:00 that day as the free version of this otherwise great calculator uses a modern style of day change not suitable for HLLS ( ie day pillar changes only in the midst of zi time pillar at 24:00 ).

Early heaven hexagram = seed of life: Hex 59, line 1

line 1 is the initial one, the one to give an impetus -> in this case for dispersion. Someone who wants to make a change? Note the depending on the power of the second line = the strong horse ( yin-yang connection). That´s interesting as also the second hexagram = "goal of life" tells a similar story - only that this depending can lead to humiliation in the end.

http://books.google.at/books?id=9-E2Q4b9_SwC&pg=PA462&lpg=PA462&dq=beginning+of+Dispersing&source=bl&ots=fAUdqLw388&sig=KQsKuPLHzuzm4mS1rbDIUB-gdjg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=znmDVJLQK4HmywOxgYK4Dw&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=beginning%20of%20Dispersing&f=false (http://books.google.at/books?id=9-E2Q4b9_SwC&pg=PA462&lpg=PA462&dq=beginning+of+Dispersing&source=bl&ots=fAUdqLw388&sig=KQsKuPLHzuzm4mS1rbDIUB-gdjg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=znmDVJLQK4HmywOxgYK4Dw&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=beginning%20of%20Dispersing&f=false)

Later heaven hexagram = development of life: Hex 28, line 4

That´s a nice description of the task of a president of an influencing country - heavy burden. And still it´s line number 4 - that means it´s quite balanced in a hexagram that´s generally indicating "burn out"-matters as well.
The temptation of linking with the Yin line with following humiliation points at the danger of listening too much to influences of the base ( can be people of a state, trying to please them ).

http://books.google.at/books?id=9-E2Q4b9_SwC&pg=PA246&lpg=PA246&dq=huang+%22carry+a+heavy+burden%22&source=bl&ots=fAUdqLw6aa&sig=PPKMMM5I7lys6ry4yZ8vip-VbHk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EHuDVN7_J-roywP71YKADw&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=huang%20%22carry%20a%20heavy%20burden%22&f=false (http://books.google.at/books?id=9-E2Q4b9_SwC&pg=PA246&lpg=PA246&dq=huang+%22carry+a+heavy+burden%22&source=bl&ots=fAUdqLw6aa&sig=PPKMMM5I7lys6ry4yZ8vip-VbHk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EHuDVN7_J-roywP71YKADw&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=huang%20%22carry%20a%20heavy%20burden%22&f=false)

Combining both hexagrams and speaking with the terms of TCM you could say that he´s a YangMing - personality. What that means? Look where the YangMing vessel goes to - to the index: So it has to do with giving the direction, defining the goals. YangMing is a typical pattern for political leaders.

With a slight grinning I read the influence - which is reads rather like a warning - for this year of wu:  Hex 35, line 4

http://books.google.at/books?id=9-E2Q4b9_SwC&pg=PA297&lpg=PA297&dq=huang+%22represents+a+rat%22&source=bl&ots=fAUdqLy19b&sig=gYky-5Jv6-9UTOy0Jn3TsI6yRKk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=44CDVLWKMou5ygOe0oL4Dg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=huang%20%22represents%20a%20rat%22&f=false (http://books.google.at/books?id=9-E2Q4b9_SwC&pg=PA297&lpg=PA297&dq=huang+%22represents+a+rat%22&source=bl&ots=fAUdqLy19b&sig=gYky-5Jv6-9UTOy0Jn3TsI6yRKk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=44CDVLWKMou5ygOe0oL4Dg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=huang%20%22represents%20a%20rat%22&f=false)
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: ren on December 07, 2014, 08:42:13 AM
Thanks Metatronos for this explanation. I got the same hexagrams you did from Four Pillars of Wisdom software, but not from the http://cesuan.fututa.com/zhouyiyuncheng/ site (maybe having trouble with Chinese language).

Please note that RST means Real Solar Time (RST)  Thanks

Combining both hexagrams and speaking with the terms of TCM you could say that he´s a YangMing - personality. What that means? Look where the YangMing vessel goes to - to the index (finger): So it has to do with giving the direction, defining the goals. YangMing is a typical pattern for political leaders.

With a slight grinning I read the influence - which is reads rather like a warning - for this year of wu:  Hex 35, line 4

http://books.google.at/books?id=9-E2Q4b9_SwC&pg=PA297&lpg=PA297&dq=huang+%22represents+a+rat%22&source=bl&ots=fAUdqLy19b&sig=gYky-5Jv6-9UTOy0Jn3TsI6yRKk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=44CDVLWKMou5ygOe0oL4Dg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=huang%20%22represents%20a%20rat%22&f=false (http://books.google.at/books?id=9-E2Q4b9_SwC&pg=PA297&lpg=PA297&dq=huang+%22represents+a+rat%22&source=bl&ots=fAUdqLy19b&sig=gYky-5Jv6-9UTOy0Jn3TsI6yRKk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=44CDVLWKMou5ygOe0oL4Dg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=huang%20%22represents%20a%20rat%22&f=false)

Which hexagrams did you combine and how? How is this converted into six channels? Are their other TCM inferences?

Thanks again.

ren
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: metatronos on December 08, 2014, 12:03:56 AM
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Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: hokyau on December 11, 2014, 09:19:11 AM
oops missed pg 2  :-[

Is there an english version of the calculator aT http://cesuan.fututa.com/zhouyiyuncheng/ ? The output looks comprehensive ... yet to translate into english :P
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: ren on December 11, 2014, 09:52:40 AM
oops missed pg 2  :-[

Is there an English version of the calculator aT http://cesuan.fututa.com/zhouyiyuncheng/ ? The output looks comprehensive ... yet to translate into english :P

Google translator will translate whole pages and follow you as you pass thru progressive pages. I have been using Pieco translator on my androids. You can put in two charters at a time and get reasonable translates (much better than trying to piece together contextually two single characters). Post your progression.

Thanks

Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: hokyau on December 11, 2014, 09:57:38 AM
Thanks Ren ... Quick question - I know the answer is found in the links shared already, but very quickly, how sensitive to time is HLLS? In bazi, the time of birth is in 2hour chunks. Is it the same in HLLS? Or do you get different trigram lines say in 15minute or 30min or x min intervals? Hope you understand my question
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: ren on December 11, 2014, 10:19:08 AM
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Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: hokyau on December 11, 2014, 05:05:52 PM
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Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: hokyau on December 11, 2014, 06:02:45 PM
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Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: hokyau on December 11, 2014, 11:43:31 PM
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Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: metatronos on December 14, 2014, 04:16:24 AM
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Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: nilegem on January 01, 2015, 03:39:13 PM
Here is an alternative to looking for an interpretation of HLLS

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p59e9xyaph8u9k5/Living%20I%20Ching%20-%20Using%20Ancient%20Chinese%20Wisdom%20to%20Shape%20Your%20Life%20-%20Deng%20Ming-Dao%28430p%29.pdf?dl=0

Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: woodheaven on February 05, 2015, 12:03:21 AM
Hi all,

Here another website for HLLS (again in chinese):

http://www.longtuge.com/hlls/
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: woodheaven on February 11, 2015, 06:00:52 AM
To all HLLS enthousiasts,

The second book  on HLLS in english (the "Astrology of  I-Ching" by Sherill and Chu is the first one) is out authored by Lily Chung and Jin Peh: "Four Pillars of Destiny Your Life Numbers and Hexagrams from the I Ching".

http://www.amazon.com/Pillars-Destiny-Numbers-Hexagrams-Ching/dp/1507757514/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1423602779&sr=8-6&keywords=four+pillars+of+destiny


This book gives many practical examples.
For the first time a book on HLLS in english is written by authors who also practices BaZi.
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: ren on February 11, 2015, 07:12:50 AM
To all HLLS enthousiasts,

The second book  on HLLS in english (the "Astrology of  I-Ching" by Sherill and Chu is the first one) is out authored by Lily Chung and Jin Peh: "Four Pillars of Destiny Your Life Numbers and Hexagrams from the I Ching".

This book gives many practical examples.
For the first time a book on HLLS in english is written by authors who also practices BaZi.

Thanks for the info! Have you read the book yet?

Jin Peh has written a few bazi books with Dr Lily Chung. Lily Chung has a distinct approach to bazi including preferring to use the lunar calendar to calculate bazi charts.

Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: nilegem on February 11, 2015, 11:44:20 AM
Hi all,

Here another website for HLLS (again in chinese):

http://www.longtuge.com/hlls/

Such a useless link, it gave no interpretation, only the Gua
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: woodheaven on February 12, 2015, 03:54:22 AM
Hi Ren,

Just found out about the book. So, no I haven't read it yet.
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: ArtofFugue on March 14, 2015, 12:56:46 PM
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Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: wansek on April 08, 2015, 03:43:05 PM
Hi all,

Just stumble upon this thread while looking for bazi materials.  I have read the softcopy of the Astrology of IChing long time ago and everything sound so vague then. 

After going  through this thread, things slowly fall into place.  Maybe  it's  time to reread the book and post some questions later.
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: ArtofFugue on November 30, 2016, 04:58:15 PM
.......the "Astrology of  I-Ching" by Sherill and Chu is the first one........

Just downloaded this book. It's decent but vague in interpretations (maybe because it's a "first book" of this subject or Jxxy Yxp's I Ching book is so detailed that it made other less detailed books look bad). Their translations remind me so much of Richard Wilhelm that I wonder did they just copy off his book? In yearly hexagrams, there are only 3 categories, eg; Career, Wealth and general fortune.

And I am amused that the authors translated Hexagram 23 Po as "Cleavage" and Hexagram 31 Xian as "Stimulation" . What were they thinking when they translated those hexagram names? :-X
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: mushroom on November 30, 2016, 11:24:19 PM
Reply to see.
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: sosweet on December 29, 2016, 05:16:21 AM
reply apply see
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: Gmuli on February 13, 2020, 03:42:36 PM
We have relatively few topics about HLLS... Yet there are few people in my country that seem to enjoy it, so we may make a calculator on that.

So I was wondering, what would members here want to see in HLLS calculator?
No guarantees we will include it, but I want to be aware what people are using/want to see.
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: ren on February 14, 2020, 01:26:43 AM
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Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: Gmuli on February 14, 2020, 01:44:01 AM
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Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: ArtofFugue on February 16, 2020, 09:57:37 PM
HLLS isn't accurate. Why bother with this 3rd rate method when there's a 1st superior method?


(https://image2.fivearts.info/image.php?di=KDEQ)

ZWDS is world's no.1 fate calculation method, on top of South Pole method, North Pole method, Shao Zi Numerology and Iron Plate Numerology.

《紫微斗数》名列《南极神数》、《北极神数》、《邵子神数》、《铁板神数》五大神数之首,号称天下第一神数。是陈抟(陈希夷)所发明。陈抟是宋初道教老祖,宋太宗赐号“希夷先生”。(耳不听为希,眼不见为夷)。民间称他为“陈抟老祖”,他在华山修炼。日观天象变幻,夜睹星辰斗转,创立紫微斗数,观天道以明人道,知星象以推人亊。斗数派别可分为两大主流:一是以星曜解读为主,统称为三合派;另一则以四化解读为主,统称为四化派。

Source: http://www.360doc.com/content/15/0817/01/9078273_492206432.shtml
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: Gmuli on February 16, 2020, 10:49:37 PM
HLLS isn't accurate. Why bother with this 3rd rate method when there's a 1st superior method?


(https://image2.fivearts.info/image.php?di=KDEQ)

ZWDS is world's no.1 fate calculation method, on top of South Pole method, North Pole method, Shao Zi Numerology and Iron Plate Numerology.

《紫微斗数》名列《南极神数》、《北极神数》、《邵子神数》、《铁板神数》五大神数之首,号称天下第一神数。是陈抟(陈希夷)所发明。陈抟是宋初道教老祖,宋太宗赐号“希夷先生”。(耳不听为希,眼不见为夷)。民间称他为“陈抟老祖”,他在华山修炼。日观天象变幻,夜睹星辰斗转,创立紫微斗数,观天道以明人道,知星象以推人亊。斗数派别可分为两大主流:一是以星曜解读为主,统称为三合派;另一则以四化解读为主,统称为四化派。

Source: http://www.360doc.com/content/15/0817/01/9078273_492206432.shtml

They aren't mutually exclusive, you know...

Anyway, I have many reasons to avoid ZWDS, while what I tested for HLLS seems to work great so far.

No idea who made the ranking system or what they base it on, but I'm only interested in what works. And I'm not disappointed from HLLS so far.
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: ArtofFugue on February 17, 2020, 09:20:30 PM
It is easier for vague predictions to achieve vague accuracy.

But in ZWDS, it's all pinpoint accuracy.
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: Gmuli on February 17, 2020, 10:23:55 PM
It is easier for vague predictions to achieve vague accuracy.

But in ZWDS, it's all pinpoint accuracy.


I personally find western astorlogy superior to ZWDS in every count one can think off.
As far as accuracy goes, the most accurate people I have seen were working with pure visions, not applying a system at all.
So accuracy can be gained in any system with enough time and deducation, the fact someone may have used ZWDS to get it matters very little, as the actual process is more connected to natural processes in us and not to the math we use.

The idea of "what works" isn't as connected to accuracy. Initially people can be accurate even just guessing or using what in the west is called "intuition"(and the metaphysical "intuition" is much more impressive then the word commonly used by people in everyday life).

Its the overall performence of the system. How fast someone that doesn't know it can start to get consistent accuracy with it, how much accessible material is out there, how many free and open software we can find making using it easier, how friendly is the community and a lot more then that.

And by almost all counts ZWDS is one of worst one of all the Five Arts(at least popular ones). Having it over hyped so much, just makes it worse in my view. As the greatest systems I have seen are rarely over hyped, no reason to do so if the system works well.

Accuracy alone matters little, as far as accuracy goes, western astorlogers I have worked with have much higher accuracy then anything I have seen from ZWDS.
But Bazi and different forms of Yi Jing are important not because they are more accurate. But because they provide very accessible links to Feng Shui and Traditional Chinese Medicine. And that is the real treasure in the Five Arts. ZWDS doesn't fit as well into them, so considering we have more accurate western astrological systems out there ZWDS becomes not very useful for most western people.

Why do you think there are like 6-7 books on ZDWS in English, even fewer in most other western languages and probably hundreds of books on Yi Jing and Bazi(not to mention feng shui and tcm)?
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: ArtofFugue on February 18, 2020, 12:18:49 AM
Every chart and person I know who tried HLLS all came back to ZWDS. Totally inaccurate and vague. I was translating the omitted interpretations (got from elsewhere) from Dr Jin Peh's HLLS book halfway until I give up because I realized HLLS is such an inaccurate, rigid and broad system. If not, I would have posted this (below) long ago. Tried and tested. Then I thought, I already have the best fate calculation method, why bother.

I Ching is a classic (no doubt) but the most important aspect of CM is applications (what it means to the querent), which is what its evolved version Six Lines can do. The querent doesn't care what goes out of the courtyard.

As for fengshui, karma is more important. Even if you live in the house with the best fengshui formation, if your karma no good, it's all wasted.

Western astrology I've talked about it years back, totally inaccurate though it's very detailed but inaccurate. Only 60% accuracy. No joke. Even went for paid 30-page report full of details but only 60% are accurate about me. Worse than Bazi.


(https://image2.fivearts.info/image.php?di=9WZP)
Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: Gmuli on February 18, 2020, 01:32:12 AM
Every chart and person I know who tried HLLS all came back to ZWDS. Totally inaccurate and vague. I was translating the omitted interpretations (got from elsewhere) from Dr Jin Peh's HLLS book halfway until I give up because I realized HLLS is such an inaccurate, rigid and broad system. If not, I would have posted this (below) long ago. Tried and tested. Then I thought, I already have the best fate calculation method, why bother.

I Ching is a classic (no doubt) but the most important aspect of CM is applications (what it means to the querent), which is what its evolved version Six Lines can do. The querent doesn't care what goes out of the courtyard.

As for fengshui, karma is more important. Even if you live in the house with the best fengshui formation, if your karma no good, it's all wasted.

Western astrology I've talked about it years back, totally inaccurate though it's very detailed but inaccurate. Only 60% accuracy. No joke. Even went for paid 30-page report full of details but only 60% are accurate about me. Worse than Bazi.



Good ones are very accurate. People close to me studied these for many years, so we knew many practitioners in the field in my country.
And yea, general ones would have very low accuracy. But if you manage to find good one(and that is rare, because they don't advertise themselves from what I have seen), they can be amazingly accurate.

Quote
As for fengshui, karma is more important. Even if you live in the house with the best fengshui formation, if your karma no good, it's all wasted.

It does improve stuff in my experience. But its not about the influence by itself that much, its the fact that we don't have equivalent of that in the west for working with space and forms in this exact way. The Geomancy studies we had weren't as comprehensive compared to how advanced Feng Shui systems often are, from what I know.

There is equivalent in India(its called Vastu shastra), but not in the west. So its not that its the most important part of it all, but its a part that we don't have developed as well yet.

The other important factor is that the systems being suitable with each other. As that does allow to flow form one to another and that is important.
So from bazi we can see WWG reading in a different way when we see some branch being important part of some events, then we can see how that shows up in the house etc.

And it overlaps and fits in a way that using only one system alone can rarely(or never) provide. So that overlap becomes important, not the individual system as much. Of course, all that related to the TCM brings even more to it all.

As far as HLLS goes... I can't comment much on it, haven't tested enough, but as I said, some people that like it would enjoy a calculator, so I'm implementing it, why not... How accurate they are with it, I haven't checked , but since they are still using it after the initial learning phase I assume it does provide good results for them.


Title: Re: HLLS Links
Post by: Gmuli on April 14, 2020, 11:03:43 PM
Here we go:
https://www.bright-hall.net/hlls/