five arts forum

Chinese Five Arts => 4. Art of Divination (Prediction) => Tai Yi Shen Shu (TYSS) => Topic started by: Päivi on October 13, 2015, 05:04:34 PM

Title: Lecture about Taiyi
Post by: Päivi on October 13, 2015, 05:04:34 PM
I talked about Taiyi in Moscow last year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=2&v=N9sCIel8-5g

Best regards

Päivi
Title: Re: Lecture about Taiyi
Post by: ArtofFugue on October 13, 2015, 05:19:56 PM
Look forward to a detailed English book on TYSS.
Title: Lecture about Taiyi
Post by: Päivi on October 13, 2015, 06:05:48 PM
Look forward to a detailed English book on TYSS.

Me too:-)  Actually my main interest is in the ancient military technique.  We don't have full information about it, because so much was lost a long time ago, but it is still a most interesting study.  Taiyi differs from all other well-known divination methods, which makes it so fascinating.
Title: Lecture about Taiyi
Post by: Päivi on October 13, 2015, 06:21:47 PM
Maybe I need to mention that the lecture is in English.
Title: Re: Lecture about Taiyi
Post by: ArtofFugue on October 13, 2015, 07:56:38 PM

Me too:-)  Actually my main interest is in the ancient military technique.  We don't have full information about it, because so much was lost a long time ago, but it is still a most interesting study.  Taiyi differs from all other well-known divination methods, which makes it so fascinating.

I thought you are a TYSS master already to be able to give a lecture about TYSS.

Lost long ago? A search on the web for "太乙神数 pdf" returns alot of information but mostly Chinese texts.
Title: Lecture about Taiyi
Post by: Päivi on November 07, 2015, 03:06:04 AM
I thought you are a TYSS master already to be able to give a lecture about TYSS.

Lost long ago? A search on the web for "太乙神数 pdf" returns alot of information but mostly Chinese texts.

Oh no, I am not a master of Taiyi.  However, I am one of the very few in the West, who has studied it as much as can be done with the information available.

As for the Chinese sources, I know that there is plenty of information in Chinese, but as far as I know, it is based on more recent practices.  Or is there more information about Taiyi as practiced during Warring States or Han dynasty?

Also, the only shipan, which is considered Taiyi shipan, does not lend itself easily to Taiyi divination as we know it so there are plenty of unknowns, methinks.
Title: Re: Lecture about Taiyi
Post by: ArtofFugue on November 07, 2015, 03:11:58 PM

As for the Chinese sources, I know that there is plenty of information in Chinese, but as far as I know, it is based on more recent practices.  Or is there more information about Taiyi as practiced during Warring States or Han dynasty?


I don't read ancient texts, I'm a modern person I read modern text.

For every ancient text, there is a downloadable modern edition if you didn't know.
Title: Re: Lecture about Taiyi
Post by: Päivi on November 07, 2015, 08:01:14 PM
For every ancient text, there is a downloadable modern edition if you didn't know.

I know.  I understand you about reading modern texts.  However, I wrote earlier that my interest lies in the ancient practice:-)  I am quite aware that this is of no interest to most people in the world. I have to accept that most likely it will be impossible to ever find out the complete methods, but it is a nice puzzle.  Other people spend their free time playing computer games, I have other ideas about having a good time:D
Title: Re: Lecture about Taiyi
Post by: ArtofFugue on November 07, 2015, 08:17:13 PM

...I have to accept that most likely it will be impossible to ever find out the complete methods...

All you need is a spade. ;D

Tough luck there. And ancient texts are not complete, they are the "version 1.0". Through modern times, masters add on from their own observations and research for the subject to become more complete. Eg; nobody will practice ZWDS Quan Shu or Quan Ji ancient text's materials because the interpretations are too limited and incomplete.
Title: Re: Lecture about Taiyi
Post by: Päivi on November 07, 2015, 08:31:43 PM

...I have to accept that most likely it will be impossible to ever find out the complete methods...

All you need is a spade. ;D

Tough luck there. And ancient texts are not complete, they are the "version 1.0".

You said it - spade.  I very much hope that archaeologists unearth new books and shipans.

Not tough luck... it is my choice.  I find pleasure in digging into such ancient matters and trying to use my knowledge to maybe figure out some of the lost information.  When we know all the different parts of Chinese cosmology, calendars, divination methods, astrology and numerology etc., some parts may be logically deducted.

I also want to have information, especially pictures, about ancient battle formations.  I've been reading, whatever books and articles I have gotten hold on, about ancient military tactics, wars etc.  My handicap is that I don't know Chinese.  Thus I have to make do with whatever is published in West and till now haven't found all that I want.
Title: Re: Lecture about Taiyi
Post by: ArtofFugue on November 07, 2015, 08:45:44 PM
..... I've been reading, whatever books and articles I have gotten hold on, about ancient military tactics, wars etc.  .....

Are you a military officer? And why the interest in ancient military tactics? Just curious...

We're in modern times now with all sorts of high-tech weapons, ancient military tactics will not be relevant anymore.
Title: Re: Lecture about Taiyi
Post by: Päivi on November 07, 2015, 09:00:43 PM
Are you a military officer? And why the interest in ancient military tactics? Just curious...

Hehe, no.  When I was young, women were not accepted in army.

It may be that I am interested in old military things (not only Chinese), because I've had many lifetimes as a soldier.  One of my favorite plays as a child was playing war.  Who knows?  I am interested in many weird things like fengshui, divination, astrology...;-)
Title: Re: Lecture about Taiyi
Post by: Axis on November 08, 2015, 11:16:26 PM
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Title: Re: Lecture about Taiyi
Post by: Axis on November 09, 2015, 04:56:16 PM
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Title: Re: Lecture about Taiyi
Post by: Päivi on November 11, 2015, 09:30:37 PM
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Maybe you read these classic Chinese books, its a good website with some translations...

Hi Axis,
I am happy to hear that my small contributions are helpful.

Thank you for reminding me that these books are on that site.

I have the 7 military classics and a couple of copies of Sun Zi's Art of War.  One of the thousands of things on my "to do" list is to check the military texts for any reference to military divination.  I've checked every English translation of Art of War I could lay hands on, to see, if anybody translated the remark pertaining to Qimendunjia correctly, but haven't found any.  I only realized this when somebody translated the book into Finnish with the original Chinese next to it and didn't invent an imaginative translation to a section, which he didn't understand.

Military divinations were not familiar in the West (or even the East to wider public) till these past 10-20 years.  Divination all in all was not considered worth serious study by sinologists.  Thus anything that may have been referring to divination was probably translated "wrong", because the translator did not know what the cryptic remarks (like 9 earths and 9 heavens) could have meant.