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Offline Ka Wai

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  • Hey guys!

    Today I want to share one comment posted by a native Chinese citizen. Born and raised in China...

    here we go:

    命坐华盖,印旺食旺,与五术有缘呀,看了半个月文言文,终于受不了,买了这个白话版的,看样子比较通俗,不错不错,很好的书

    Can you see that? Even native Chinese and not some oversea Chinese have had trouble reading 文言文 text. His comment shows the annoyance of reading classical Chinese (ie 文言文).

    What do you think? What is your greatest obstacle in translating Chinese text?

    @duesouth
    @trey
    @ArtofFugue
    @voglee
    @nilegem

    Online tyc

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  • Re: 文言文 is one of the greatest obstacle in translating Chinese text
    « Reply #1 on: January 24, 2018, 02:26:24 AM »
    [Hidden post: You need login to forum to see it.]
    If everything in life is measurable, then understanding destiny would be as simple as counting 1, 2, and 3.

    Offline Ka Wai

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  • Re: 文言文 is one of the greatest obstacle in translating Chinese text
    « Reply #2 on: January 24, 2018, 02:58:36 AM »
    all is invited but @tyc

    Google translation was totally off.

    Offline Axis

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    Re: 文言文 is one of the greatest obstacle in translating Chinese text
    « Reply #3 on: January 24, 2018, 04:08:24 AM »
    [Hidden post: You need login to forum to see it.]
    « Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 04:13:11 AM by Axis »

    Offline trey

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  • Re: 文言文 is one of the greatest obstacle in translating Chinese text
    « Reply #4 on: January 24, 2018, 04:15:32 AM »
    Classical Chinese is not that difficult for most people who already know Chinese. However, learning Metaphysics from the classical texts can be challenging. Firstly, those texts are compacted and they are only made of terminologies, no explanation, just straight to the point. Secondly, the content can be a little too advanced for beginners. Some texts are intelligible only to learned practitioners. Thirdly the texts can be cryptic.

    Reading a language that one is not very familiar with is difficult, for most people. Learning a new set of skills is also difficult. Combine both and it becomes super difficult.

    For me, understanding the text is not difficult (with the help of dictionaries), but deciphering the text is difficult. If one reads a modern book that explains the classical texts, one is essentially reading the modern writer's interpretation or the writer's attempt at deciphering the classical text. Whether the translation or interpretation is from classical Chinese to modern Chinese or to English or other languages.

    I always tell my readers that translation aside, they are basically reading my interpretation of the old texts. Whether my interpretations represent the original author's view or not; I truly cannot tell, but I do my best by analyzing the words or proverbs used, by studying and learning about ancient philosophies and history, by going through references of older books and by cross referencing one classics with the others.

    I try to make 'informed translations and interpretations' instead of making assumptions or make things up. I try to infuse the concepts of writing scientific papers into my work (I may have failed). I want my readers to know the sources and references, they need to see the methodology, they need to know how things evolved from this to that. To me, metaphysics was science in the antiquity. Metaphysics is defined as 'the way the ancient people explain how things work around them with the influences of philosophy' or the quote from Wikipedia

    Quote
    Metaphysics is a branch of philosophy exploring the fundamental questions, including the nature of concepts like being, existence, and reality.[1] It has two branches – cosmology and ontology. Traditional metaphysics seeks to answer, in a "suitably abstract and fully general manner", the questions:[2]

    What is there?
    And what is it like?
    Topics of metaphysical investigation include existence, objects and their properties, space and time, cause and effect, and possibility. A central branch of metaphysics is ontology, the investigation into the basic categories of being and how they relate to one another.

    It is not difficult to translate the classical texts but it is very difficult to do it right. I don't want to mislead people, I want my readers to have unbiased views on a subject, which is why I translated several classics on the same subject. Having done that, there is no guarantee that what I am doing is right. I may be wrong altogether from the beginning to the end. Regardless, I enjoy sharing my work with readers. It strokes the INFJ ego in me.

    Have a nice day people

    Offline Ka Wai

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  • Re: 文言文 is one of the greatest obstacle in translating Chinese text
    « Reply #5 on: January 24, 2018, 06:06:22 PM »
    I learnt a lot from this topic. Thanks!


    Offline Axis

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    Re: 文言文 is one of the greatest obstacle in translating Chinese text
    « Reply #6 on: January 24, 2018, 07:23:53 PM »
    [Hidden post: You need login to forum to see it.]
    « Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 07:27:58 PM by Axis »

    Offline rotiprata

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  • Re: 文言文 is one of the greatest obstacle in translating Chinese text
    « Reply #7 on: January 30, 2018, 01:04:07 AM »
    Classical Chinese is not that difficult for most people who already know Chinese. However, learning Metaphysics from the classical texts can be challenging. Firstly, those texts are compacted and they are only made of terminologies, no explanation, just straight to the point. Secondly, the content can be a little too advanced for beginners. Some texts are intelligible only to learned practitioners. Thirdly the texts can be cryptic.

    Reading a language that one is not very familiar with is difficult, for most people. Learning a new set of skills is also difficult. Combine both and it becomes super difficult.

    For me, understanding the text is not difficult (with the help of dictionaries), but deciphering the text is difficult. If one reads a modern book that explains the classical texts, one is essentially reading the modern writer's interpretation or the writer's attempt at deciphering the classical text. Whether the translation or interpretation is from classical Chinese to modern Chinese or to English or other languages.

    I always tell my readers that translation aside, they are basically reading my interpretation of the old texts. Whether my interpretations represent the original author's view or not; I truly cannot tell, but I do my best by analyzing the words or proverbs used, by studying and learning about ancient philosophies and history, by going through references of older books and by cross referencing one classics with the others.

    I try to make 'informed translations and interpretations' instead of making assumptions or make things up. I try to infuse the concepts of writing scientific papers into my work (I may have failed). I want my readers to know the sources and references, they need to see the methodology, they need to know how things evolved from this to that. To me, metaphysics was science in the antiquity. Metaphysics is defined as 'the way the ancient people explain how things work around them with the influences of philosophy' or the quote from Wikipedia

    Quote
    Metaphysics is a branch of philosophy exploring the fundamental questions, including the nature of concepts like being, existence, and reality.[1] It has two branches – cosmology and ontology. Traditional metaphysics seeks to answer, in a "suitably abstract and fully general manner", the questions:[2]

    What is there?
    And what is it like?
    Topics of metaphysical investigation include existence, objects and their properties, space and time, cause and effect, and possibility. A central branch of metaphysics is ontology, the investigation into the basic categories of being and how they relate to one another.

    It is not difficult to translate the classical texts but it is very difficult to do it right. I don't want to mislead people, I want my readers to have unbiased views on a subject, which is why I translated several classics on the same subject. Having done that, there is no guarantee that what I am doing is right. I may be wrong altogether from the beginning to the end. Regardless, I enjoy sharing my work with readers. It strokes the INFJ ego in me.

    Have a nice day people

    Hi @trey, am a big fan of your blog!

    That's some fabulous work done there but it also leave me high and dry as i felt it was incomplete. Any chance that you would continue working on it?

    Offline ArtofFugue

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  • Re: 文言文 is one of the greatest obstacle in translating Chinese text
    « Reply #8 on: February 05, 2018, 02:19:05 PM »

    here we go:

    命坐华盖,印旺食旺,与五术有缘呀,看了半个月文言文,终于受不了,买了这个白话版的,看样子比较通俗,不错不错,很好的书
    ...................

    Actually, this is quite readable, still ok to read:

    "命坐华盖,印旺食旺,与五术有缘呀" = Hua Gai star resides in chart, with strong Resource and Performance elements, person has affinity with metaphysics.
    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

    five arts forum

    Re: 文言文 is one of the greatest obstacle in translating Chinese text
    « Reply #8 on: February 05, 2018, 02:19:05 PM »
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