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Offline ArtofFugue

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  • Actually I wanted to review this book for a very long time but keep postponing it for some reasons. The main gist of this book I have revealed here so members can read about it to have a rough idea what this book is all about. For details, refer to the book itself of course.

    First I want to say I got this book free, it was shared with me by a generous someone. So my heart is “lighter” when I review it, I don’t have ringing thoughts like “I-paid-so-much-so-I-expect-so-much”.

    When I read a research book, I expect answers, not speculations or opinions (eg; “might be”, “likely”, “could be”, etc). Whether the answers are debatable or acceptable by other people, it’s another story. And I’ve to say this book does it for me than another chinese astronomy book I read recently.

    The research is well-done and quite comprehensive I must say. The information is well-presented in a clear manner. It wasn’t confusing to read through this book. It is very interesting to learn about the astronomical basis behind each star in Zi Wei Dou Shu astrology. If someone were to ask me, “Are the stars in ZWDS imaginary, as stated in most books?” or “Does ZWDS have any scientific basis?”, I would show him/her this book.

    The only complaint I have is that the author should include at least some application part (ie; stars’ interpretations) because he stated conventional ZWDS teachings needed ‘corrections’. I’m open-minded and curious to know what are the supposed ‘adjustments’ and ‘corrections’ we need to make because all along my readings for myself and others are tallying with real life events. I may not agree with some parts of his research but I still respect his work and dedication to CM.

    Hope he can include application part in next edition.
    « Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 01:10:41 PM by ArtofFugue »
    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

    Offline trey

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  • Re: Book review: Astronomical Planetary Basis of the Stars of ZWDS Astrology
    « Reply #1 on: January 30, 2018, 02:25:19 AM »
    Went through the chapter that says BaZi originated from ZWDS. Absolutely crap


    The author got his source from my blog that says ChenTuan and XuZiping were both hermits in mount Hua. He spinned it

    and abacadabra

    BaZi must be derived from ZWDS.

    No Shit.

    That is not an evidence. Definitely nothing scientific. It is an unfounded claim. Read the entire blog post so you can have an idea where bazi came from.

    Damn I can write better than that. @ArtofFugue stop spreading this shit.


    Offline Xkfan

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  • Re: Book review: Astronomical Planetary Basis of the Stars of ZWDS Astrology
    « Reply #2 on: January 30, 2018, 10:31:33 AM »
    Went through the chapter that says BaZi originated from ZWDS. Absolutely crap


    The author got his source from my blog that says ChenTuan and XuZiping were both hermits in mount Hua. He spinned it

    and abacadabra

    BaZi must be derived from ZWDS.

    No Shit.

    That is not an evidence. Definitely nothing scientific. It is an unfounded claim. Read the entire blog post so you can have an idea where bazi came from.

    Damn I can write better than that. @ArtofFugue stop spreading this shit.

    Haha...at last someone has pointed out some shit this fella leave.

    I did say the same thing before (can't remember here or the previous fivearts). It is fengshui book he wrote on Luan Tou. Really know nothing yet wrote like he is the only person who discover this and that. Go and ask him how many mountain he walked ... how many mountain xue he see... how many mountain shape he really know.

    One of many jokes he make was a tanlang mountain 'protrude nipple xue', he directly take two mountain with sharp peak like women breast as it. And the xue located at the peak. If you really bury your ancestor here, your ancestor will jump out of the coffin... This really show he never walk the dragon but directly translate from book. Use it to cheat GUILO is not a problem but don't say others people fengshui is fake and only you are teaching the real stuff.

    « Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 11:05:39 AM by Xkfan »

    Offline TenVirtues

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  • Re: Book review: Astronomical Planetary Basis of the Stars of ZWDS Astrology
    « Reply #3 on: January 30, 2018, 05:13:14 PM »
    I just read this book, there are some parts of this book that i agree with but there are definitely points that i completely disagree with.
    Chapter 1. The author explains the similarities of Hindu/Western/Chinese Astrology. He advocates the study of Western/Hindu(Jyotish) Astrology to better understand Chinese Astrology. This i agree with. He then goes on to explain how the Chinese unlike it's western counterparts did not calculate the precession of the equinoxes because of
    Chinese need to stick to tradition. He then goes on to explain how if we moved up one sign we would correlate directly with the Western Zodiac. As in Ox is now Western Sagittarius also Vedic Sagittarius. This i disagree with. First off Sidereal astrology does not take into account of the precession of the equinoxes because it is based on Fixed stars and the 0 degree of Ashwini Nakshatra as the beginning of Aries.
    Therefore Western Sagittarius and Vedic Sagittarius is actually 23 degrees apart using Lahiri Ayanamsa. The Chinese use 0 degrees of Spica which is exactly 180 degrees from Ashwini. Which means that both Chinese and Vedic Astrology do not account from precession of Equinoxes because there main style of Astrology is based on fixed stars rather then the precession Tropical.
    Chapter 2. The Author goes on to explain the 14 main stars represent solar/lunar phases of the planets. Yet his explanation of this goes into the signs rather then the planets. He goes onto explain the solar phase/ lunar phase represent different zodiacs. Each planet ruling two zodiacs solar/lunar Yin/Yang. Goes on to explain how the 14 stars relate to the placement of planets. Anyone who even study the basics of ZWDS know that these 14 main stars all organize in particular ways depending on the placement of which Zodiac 紫微 and 天府 is in. It is not hard to make up astronomical phenomenon's to justify fixed positions. No matter how you try to explain the placement of these stars. They all just appear in same place depending on the placement of 紫微 and 天府.
    Has nothing to do with stars representing planets and the author did not give any thorough evidence or explanation.


    From chapter 3 onwards was just a mixture of the Author's explanation of this misconception and continued tries on explaining how ZWDS has links to the planets.
    Was some good read about other astrologies and even there explanation had flaws.

    This book starting from chapter 1 presented major flaws and misconceptions. He did not even get the right idea between Vedic/Tropical signs.
    Goes on to try and explain how the 14 stars represented planets but presented more questions then answers.
    Overall was a pretty amusing book but could really be misleading so just like the author suggested to get a good understanding of vedic/tropical astrology before you read this book. Is a good idea so you don't get mislead by some of the misinformation he spreads.

    Offline Axis

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    Re: Book review: Astronomical Planetary Basis of the Stars of ZWDS Astrology
    « Reply #4 on: January 30, 2018, 05:29:31 PM »
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    Offline TenVirtues

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  • Re: Book review: Astronomical Planetary Basis of the Stars of ZWDS Astrology
    « Reply #5 on: January 31, 2018, 04:35:14 AM »
    Hi @Axis
    Thanks for sharing, yeah the book stop making sense for me when he started to talk about the stars being planets and then went on to explain planets ruling signs. Planets ruling signs is common knowledge for astrologers but that doesn't explain how planets become stars.

    Offline Axis

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    Re: Book review: Astronomical Planetary Basis of the Stars of ZWDS Astrology
    « Reply #6 on: January 31, 2018, 08:33:21 AM »
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    « Last Edit: January 31, 2018, 09:11:56 AM by Axis »

    Offline trey

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  • Re: Book review: Astronomical Planetary Basis of the Stars of ZWDS Astrology
    « Reply #7 on: January 31, 2018, 09:16:16 AM »
    My knowledge in astrology is very limited, please let me know if anything I said is incorrect.

    I'm not so sure if TaiSui was invented to cater for the missing 0.14 year to account for the inaccuracy of regarding Jupiter as the 'Year Star'. I only know for sure that TaiSui is an imaginary star.

    If it had been the case, the my previous comment might be invalid. And TaiSui would have been a totally different entity from Jupiter because after so many years, their movement would not be synchronized anymore.


    Offline TenVirtues

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  • Re: Book review: Astronomical Planetary Basis of the Stars of ZWDS Astrology
    « Reply #8 on: January 31, 2018, 09:27:12 AM »
    I think Tai Sui, Means Vedic Jupiter if i am correct which is around 23-24 degrees from True Jupiter. So that Jupiter aligns with the constellations.

    Offline Axis

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    Re: Book review: Astronomical Planetary Basis of the Stars of ZWDS Astrology
    « Reply #9 on: January 31, 2018, 09:29:38 AM »
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    « Last Edit: January 31, 2018, 09:33:14 AM by Axis »

    Offline bokeksiansu

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  • Re: Book review: Astronomical Planetary Basis of the Stars of ZWDS Astrology
    « Reply #10 on: January 31, 2018, 05:29:52 PM »
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    Free Will Free Dom Free Financial its not really Free. There is no such thing as failure. There is only sweet-and-sour reality :)

    Offline TenVirtues

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  • Re: Book review: Astronomical Planetary Basis of the Stars of ZWDS Astrology
    « Reply #11 on: January 31, 2018, 06:02:13 PM »
    Actually i'm pretty sure the 太岁 star is talking about the Sidereal position of Jupiter. It can actually be proven. This is a little different from 八字 change in year. Which is based in the season. As Vedic Sidereal Position of Jupiter will change signs permanently around the same time the Chinese Year Zodiac reaches it's own Month. So last year 2017, Jupiter transits into Libra on September 12th Month of 酉 began in September 8th. We most remember that Indian Sidereal Lahiri calculations is -24 degrees, while the Chinese Sidereal calculation is more like 23.85 in a 360 degree circle. So Vedic Jupiter changes signs at approximately the same time You month begins in You year. We can say that it ran 12 month from You to You (Jupiter Year).
    2016 Aug 12 2016, Jupiter Transits into Vedic Virgo, Month of 申 begins in August 8th. This pattern is true in all cases in all years. Jupiter's sidereal position tends to transit to the next sign around the same time as the month begins for that Chinese Year signalling the end of a 12th month period. This is Astrological Year/Jupiter year.
    This seems to correspond with the idea that Sidereal position of Jupiter is the 太岁 position while the true position of Jupiter is the 岁星.

    Offline Axis

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    Re: Book review: Astronomical Planetary Basis of the Stars of ZWDS Astrology
    « Reply #12 on: January 31, 2018, 06:20:45 PM »
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    « Last Edit: January 31, 2018, 06:30:02 PM by Axis »

    Offline TenVirtues

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  • Re: Book review: Astronomical Planetary Basis of the Stars of ZWDS Astrology
    « Reply #13 on: January 31, 2018, 06:33:54 PM »
    Your right @Axis I could be mistaking 岁星 for 太岁。 I forgot the ancient Chinese did not take into consideration the precession. So Jupiter is already in its sidereal position. Meaning the 太岁 would be opposite of sidereal Jupiter. Which is quite interesting because that would mean 太岁of 酉 would be in pieces. While sidereal Jupiter will be in Virgo.
    This is interesting because I would consider the sign of Virgo to relate more to the characteristics of 酉 then Pisces.
    I am guessing the 岁星 still represent the yearly zodiac and the 太岁 is the marker of Jupiters descendant and doesn't represent the yearly zodiac sign.
    « Last Edit: January 31, 2018, 06:36:18 PM by TenVirtues »

    Offline trey

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  • Re: Book review: Astronomical Planetary Basis of the Stars of ZWDS Astrology
    « Reply #14 on: January 31, 2018, 09:08:47 PM »
    Actually, TaiSui represents the Zodiac because they were created that way.

    Jupiter moves across the sky from the west to the east, here is the table from wikipedia in its 12 分野 FenYe

    https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B2%81%E6%98%9F%E7%BA%AA%E5%B9%B4

    While TaiSui moves across the sky from the east to the west in the direction of the 12 branches. It really is an imaginary star that doesn't exist.

    Next year TaiSui is Wu Xu, which is also the Annual Pillar.

    In folklore, there are 60 TaiSuis taking turns to govern each year. When the year pillar of the BaZi clash, punish, harm etc with the annual pillar, it is said to be Clashing TaiSui, Harming TaiSui etc and we have to go to the temple to pray to 'solve TaiSui'

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    Re: Book review: Astronomical Planetary Basis of the Stars of ZWDS Astrology
    « Reply #14 on: January 31, 2018, 09:08:47 PM »
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