Author Topic: Opening grave...  (Read 2627 times)

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Online RapaNui

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Re: Opening grave...
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2019, 12:41:15 AM »
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self penalty & self punishment
Can someone explain what is the difference between "penalty" and "punishment"?
 ???
In my dictionary there are the same.  :-[
RapaNui (Poland)

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  • Re: Opening grave...
    « Reply #31 on: October 09, 2019, 01:23:18 AM »
    @RapaNui
    I don't think there are specific rules, it seems what we often use as harm(Chen<>Mao) or destruction(Mao<>Zi) people can call penalty or punishment(Mao Zi was ungrateful punishment I think?but it can just be viewed as another type of destruction). And at times the other stuff can be called either one or the other... So overall I try to ignore the term and just look at the branches involved. : )

    @tyc
    Good idea, Puppy is awesome.

    Overall I think the whole punishment idea can be confusing. : )
    Basically they open with clash, either of the stems they contain or of the branch itself.
    So for Chou for example that would be Wei(clash), or any metal stem/branch clashed in connection to that branch. Yet, as the wood will clash with that same metal, that also becomes any wood stem/branch connected to it.

    However, as we have Chou, Xu and Wei as a form of punishment, its another way to say that if we have Xu and Chou, or we have Xu and Wei it iwll still open them even though they don't clash.

    So overall its clash of what they contain. Clash of the earth branch itself(Chen<>Xu for example). And on top of that if we have 2 earth branches with exception of Chen they will still open each other.

    Puppy said it in very unusual way initially, but its clear out in great detail in later posts.

    « Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 01:24:50 AM by Gmuli »

    Offline ren

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  • Re: Opening grave...
    « Reply #32 on: October 09, 2019, 01:27:26 AM »
    Hey RapaNui,

    When you are playing Soccer and you cause a foul, the Referee give you a Penalty.

    The Punishment is the disciplinary action the Referee levies against you.  ;)

    Ren
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    Offline gentlejoker

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  • Re: Opening grave...
    « Reply #33 on: October 09, 2019, 01:57:57 AM »
    My understanding of opening grave is as follow:
    Monkey opens Dragon water tomb
    Pig opens Goat wood tomb
    Snake opens Ox metal tomb
    Tiger opens Dog fire tomb

    Online tyc

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  • Re: Opening grave...
    « Reply #34 on: October 09, 2019, 07:01:48 AM »
    My understanding of opening grave is as follow:
    Monkey opens Dragon water tomb
    Pig opens Goat wood tomb
    Snake opens Ox metal tomb
    Tiger opens Dog fire tomb

    Haha, guess I'm wrong again😂.

    @gentlejoker , just wondering how u came up with your thoughts.
    If everything in life is measurable, then understanding destiny would be as simple as counting 1, 2, and 3.

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  • Re: Opening grave...
    « Reply #35 on: October 09, 2019, 09:48:25 AM »
    My understanding of opening grave is as follow:
    Monkey opens Dragon water tomb
    Pig opens Goat wood tomb
    Snake opens Ox metal tomb
    Tiger opens Dog fire tomb

    Haha, guess I'm wrong again😂.

    @gentlejoker , just wondering how u came up with your thoughts.
    Snake contains Geng Metal in the hidden stem. It's also the birth of this element. Ox contains Xin Metal in the hidden stem. It's the tomb for this element. Snake is the key to open the Ox tomb to release the Metal element.

    Monkey contains Ren Water in the hidden stem. It's also the birth of this element. Dragon contains Gui Water in the hidden stem. It's the tomb for this element. Monkey is the key to open the Dragon tomb to release the Water element.

    Pig contains Jia Wood in the hidden stem. It's also the birth of this element. Goat contains Yi Wood in the hidden stem. It's the tomb for this element. Pig is the key to open the Goat tomb to release the Wood element.

    Tiger contains Bing Fire in the hidden stem. It's also the birth of this element. Dog contains Ding Fire in the hidden stem. It's the tomb for this element. Tiger is the key to open the Dog tomb to release the Fire element.     

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  • Re: Opening grave...
    « Reply #36 on: October 09, 2019, 03:05:38 PM »
    My understanding of opening grave is as follow:
    Monkey opens Dragon water tomb
    Pig opens Goat wood tomb
    Snake opens Ox metal tomb
    Tiger opens Dog fire tomb

    I think that is called "arching out"(as they will create an arc with the missing center Hai <> Mao <> Wei etc.
    This does work to gain little of the element, but in my experience(and I do have that in my chart) its not a lot. Much less then open Tomb do.

    Offline gentlejoker

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  • Re: Opening grave...
    « Reply #37 on: October 09, 2019, 08:25:49 PM »
    My understanding of opening grave is as follow:
    Monkey opens Dragon water tomb
    Pig opens Goat wood tomb
    Snake opens Ox metal tomb
    Tiger opens Dog fire tomb

    I think that is called "arching out"(as they will create an arc with the missing center Hai <> Mao <> Wei etc.
    This does work to gain little of the element, but in my experience(and I do have that in my chart) its not a lot. Much less then open Tomb do.
    I have looked at a few charts that only has Ox in the inner chart. Metal is his favorable element. When the year and month of Snake arrives, luck changes from bad to good. One chart has Chou + Shen just like any other chart. Once Si year arrives, making lots of money and marriage happened in the same year. 

    There are so many interpretation out there by so many different schools. I stick with what's working for now until someone can prove otherwise.   

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  • Re: Opening grave...
    « Reply #38 on: October 09, 2019, 08:38:45 PM »
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    If everything in life is measurable, then understanding destiny would be as simple as counting 1, 2, and 3.

    Offline ren

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  • Re: Opening grave...
    « Reply #39 on: October 10, 2019, 07:48:07 AM »
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    Freedom - Pharrell Williams

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  • Re: Opening grave...
    « Reply #40 on: October 10, 2019, 03:03:25 PM »
    tyc & gentlejoker:
    We can go into real life examples if someone is wondering about specific one, have a lot of their life story and want to post it. I don't want to search for one or post one of people I know or me, and without real life example we got as far as we could I think. : )

    ren:

    The way I understand it the idea is that when the central part is missing we have a stage where that element is disappearing to be gone for the year(Tomb) and we have the branch where that element is being born.

    For Yang Stems, if we look at the 12 life stages that would always be at that branch(Hai in this example), as that is the branch with first Yang Stem of the element for the Year, wood being born in Hai, as in its hidden stem we have Jia, showing that Wood is starting to inflow for the year, during Yin Tiger we have the second Yin yang stem and that shows that Wood has increased even more and is at its maximum for the year now while still increasing. Then Mao will contain both, its maximum and the point it starts to decrease(be that solstice or sunset, depending if its month or hour pillar).

    That is true for all of them, we have been through this in other topics.

    So what meaning of "Arc" we use.
    In my understanding we use 2 of them. Using google translate we have this for 拱:

    Quote
    arch
       
    拱, 拱门, 拱起, 拱券, 炉顶, 霓
       
    cove
       
    拱, 隩, 隈, 澳
       
    verb
    arch
       

       
    surround
       
    环绕, 包围, 周围, 围住, 围, 拱
       
    salute
       
    敬礼, 礼炮, 行礼, 致敬, 迎接, 拱
       
    hump up
       

       
    join hands
       
    戮力, 合伙, 拱

    post
       
    邮寄, 邮递, 哨, 公告, 寄, 拱

    dig earth with the snout
       

    If we look how Benjimen and the others used it in the old forums it also had another added meaning, that would be"frame".
    In that sense we seem to be moving more closer to "surround" as meaning(being the first one). Also that of "cove" as that is exactly the same form.

    So to surround something would suggest we are what is encircling it, but the center is not there as part of us, we are surrounding, so creating a form that is encircling something else.
    That seems very similar to what a frame of a picture does. It surrounds the picture, but the picture itself is not there as part of the frame.Also what a cove does.

    Very similar to what Hai and Wei would do for Wood element, as the central element is missing, suggesting they are showing the borders of something, where its born and where it dies, but the actual essence is missing.
    (all of them, of course, as the same principles apply to all).

    In that sense I presume the first meaning is that of a "frame", or arch in architectural sense. With added cove, as the same form. Something that is empty in the middle but supported from the site.
    Also a good reason it hates clash as we often remind. Because clashing a solid closed door isn't a big problem, the door can usually handle it well. Yet clashing an empty frame can make it crooked(can see in some cases when as a frame is clashed from AP or LP for the first time in that persons life).

    However, that is one meaning.
    The other, in my view is "dig out", as one of the elements where the element is born will be able to obtain a little of what the arc supports from the other element. Now, the idea of  "dig out" suggest that that would only be the element with Yang hidden stem(so in Hai<>Wei example that would always be Hai digging up form Wei, as Wei will always be Earth/Tomb branch). Yet in practice we can see that Wei can also dig up Wood from Hai, even though Hai isn't earth branch, as the Wood is just starting to be born then and not very easy to see, the process of getting it out we can also call "digging" out of it.

    More info - Axis had posted very nice topics from the old forums somewhere around, but I can't remember where(big forum now) where we can see the arc/frame used for the missing central part combo.  : )



    Offline Axis

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    Re: Opening grave...
    « Reply #41 on: October 10, 2019, 06:26:01 PM »
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    « Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 07:06:52 PM by Axis »

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  • Re: Opening grave...
    « Reply #42 on: October 10, 2019, 09:47:10 PM »
    @Gmuli, I unfortunately didn't get the permission to post their Bazi chart in this forum. So we both have to stick with what we believe for now.

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  • Re: Opening grave...
    « Reply #43 on: October 10, 2019, 09:57:45 PM »
    @Gmuli , I don't have any example, but if u have an example please explain further.  Thanks.
    If everything in life is measurable, then understanding destiny would be as simple as counting 1, 2, and 3.

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  • Re: Opening grave...
    « Reply #44 on: October 11, 2019, 12:16:10 AM »
    @Gmuli , I don't have any example, but if u have an example please explain further.  Thanks.

    Nothing that I feel comfortable posting.
    But in the free reading section we had many cases with similar dynamics, through the years, problem is finding something in there is challenging. : )

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    Re: Opening grave...
    « Reply #44 on: October 11, 2019, 12:16:10 AM »
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