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Offline hmesker

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'When will father return'? A case from Wild Crane
« on: October 21, 2018, 07:16:43 PM »
Thursday and Friday I gave a Wenwanggua workshop and I presented my students with the following case from Wild Crane's 《增刪卜易》. I found the case in another book (《卜易拆字秘傳百日通》) but this weekend I looked up the original case in Wild Crane's book because I wanted to be sure that I knew all the details as he originally gives them. I found the case to be a good example of yingshi 應時, 'time selection'. I copied the case from Hu Yantang 胡焰棠 《易卦占卜大全》 which incorporates Wild Crane's book. The electronic versions that I have of 《增刪卜易》 contain annoying errors like '抵家' instead of '到家'.

辰月戊子日,占父歸期,得「乾之夬」。

父母持世,破而化空,既無日生,又無動助,以古法斷,作用神無氣,其父不能歸也。予不以此斷,竟決
以朱雀臨父,動而持世,卯日有信,午未日必歸。果於卯日得信,乙未日到家。得信於卯日者,破而逢合
之日也;歸於未日者,父化未土旬空,出空之日而到也。

In month chen 辰 on day wu-zi 戊子 someone asked when his father would return. He got hexagram Qian (1) changing to Guai (43).

"The Parents line (which is the Yongshen 用神 in this case) resides at the Self (shi 世) line but it is being smashed (po 破) by the month and changes to Empty (kong 空). It is not being Produced (sheng 生) by the day nor does it have support from any moving line. According to the traditional rules this means that the Yongshen does not have any Qi (wuqi 無氣), which indicates that the father is not able to come home. But this is not my final conclusion. The Celestial Spirit of the Vermilion Bird (Zhu Que 朱雀) is at the line of the father, it is moving and also at the position of the Self line. At day mao 卯 you will receive a letter, and on day wu 午 or wei 未 your father will return.

As it happened the son received a letter on day mao 卯, and on day yi-wei 乙未 his father returned home.

The letter was received on day mao 卯 because this Branch Combines (he 合) with Branch xu 戌 of the Yongshen that was Smashed by the month (chen 辰). The father returned on day wei 未 because the Father line changes to wei 未 and becomes Empty. The day when this Branch is not Empty anymore will be the day that the father returns." 

There are a few things that I like in this case. 1. The selection of day mao 卯 as the day that a letter will be received (because the Vermilion Bird covers letters, documents etc.) The Yongshen is being Smashed by the month, but it can be 'rescued' by Branch mao 卯 because that Branch combines with the Yongshen. 2. This case shows that what jumps out, what catches the eye, most likely determines the outcome. A a) Yongshen on the Self line being b) smashed by the month and c) changing to d) an Empty Branch which e) is still the Yongshen is a remarkable combination of events which can be used for yingshi 應時, to decide the 'timeliness', the time of an event. 3. Even though hexagram 1 is a 六沖 hexagram which is normally regarded as ominous the result is still positive. I guess that a Yongshen on the Shi line is strong enough to counter the effect of a liuchong hexagram.

Wenwanggua. Such fun! 😀

Offline Axis

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Re: 'When will father return'? A case from Wild Crane
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2018, 02:51:58 AM »
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Offline ArtofFugue

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  • Re: 'When will father return'? A case from Wild Crane
    « Reply #2 on: October 23, 2018, 07:35:00 AM »

    ..........The electronic versions that I have of 《增刪卜易》 contain annoying errors like '抵家' instead of '到家'.

    .................

    Those aren't "errors" like you alleged. Both means arrived home. ;D
    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

    Offline ArtofFugue

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  • Re: 'When will father return'? A case from Wild Crane
    « Reply #3 on: October 23, 2018, 07:48:48 AM »

    ..........Even though hexagram 1 is a 六沖 hexagram which is normally regarded as ominous the result is still positive. I guess that a Yongshen on the Shi line is strong enough to counter the effect of a liuchong hexagram.

    .................

    It is generally inauspicious but you have to look at what category is your question. For missing person/waiting for someone to come, it's ok especially if Useful God is strong enough.
    Quote

    要看用神是否受冲,寻人遇六冲卦是正常的,如果用神旺相,六冲卦也不要紧 。
    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

    Offline hmesker

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    Re: 'When will father return'? A case from Wild Crane
    « Reply #4 on: October 23, 2018, 02:20:46 PM »

    ..........The electronic versions that I have of 《增刪卜易》 contain annoying errors like '抵家' instead of '到家'.

    .................

    Those aren't "errors" like you alleged. Both means arrived home. ;D

    Thanks, I didn't know that. I could not find that expression anywhere so I assumed it was an error.

    Online voglee

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  • Re: 'When will father return'? A case from Wild Crane
    « Reply #5 on: October 23, 2018, 04:56:27 PM »
    This important information needs translation …

    要看用神是否受冲,寻人遇六冲卦是正常的,如果用神旺相,六冲卦也不要紧 。[/size]

    It depends on Yongshen if suffering from Clash [Chong], when people encounter with six Clash Hexagrams is normal thing, just as if Yongshen is in flourishing [Wang - Xiang] phase, the six Clash Hexagrams are not serious [unimportant ].

    Thanks
    @voglee
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  • Re: 'When will father return'? A case from Wild Crane
    « Reply #6 on: October 23, 2018, 05:24:53 PM »
    Well, to be fair clash means movement. Six clashes hexagram also means they don't have anywhere to go at this point, as everything is opposing them, so they have to return.

    More info in Arts topic about types of Hexagrams:
    https://fivearts.info/fivearts/index.php?topic=2177.0
    Broken line can be a problem, as something worse may happen, when someone doesn't have anywhere to go, but in our case this is in Earth month...
    So when will they return - when void is filled...
    Of course, I do agree with Puppy, it is more complicated at times, however in practical examples easy to see it also does work very often.

    I think in many of the Five Arts, questions for missing persons is usually the opposite of the usual rules. As there is often the chance they left on purpose, to look for something else, so to go back that something has to push them back.
    Interesting example in QMDJ as well, Open door that usually means new opportunities and beginnings, would be very inauspicious for  someones return, as it suggest something new is just starting for them.

    Offline ArtofFugue

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  • Re: 'When will father return'? A case from Wild Crane
    « Reply #7 on: October 23, 2018, 07:12:17 PM »
    @Gmuli : True, true.... Need to see whole chart. This isn't OLKA.
    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

    Offline ArtofFugue

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  • Re: 'When will father return'? A case from Wild Crane
    « Reply #8 on: October 23, 2018, 07:14:49 PM »
    This important information needs translation …

    It depends on Yongshen if suffering from Clash [Chong], when people encounter with six Clash Hexagrams is normal thing, just as if Yongshen is in flourishing [Wang - Xiang] phase, the six Clash Hexagrams are not serious [unimportant ].

    Thanks
    @voglee

    Slight Amendment: "encountering Clashing Hexagram Type in Missing Person category".
    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

    Offline ArtofFugue

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  • Re: 'When will father return'? A case from Wild Crane
    « Reply #9 on: October 23, 2018, 09:17:09 PM »


    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

    Offline hmesker

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    Re: 'When will father return'? A case from Wild Crane
    « Reply #10 on: October 23, 2018, 09:46:17 PM »




    AoF, I am beginning to wonder how big your book collection is  ;) Thanks for the info. Very instructive.

    Offline ArtofFugue

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  • Re: 'When will father return'? A case from Wild Crane
    « Reply #11 on: October 25, 2018, 07:51:55 PM »

    AoF, I am beginning to wonder how big your book collection is  ;) Thanks for the info. Very instructive.

    Just a humble small collection of books. :)
    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

    Offline ArtofFugue

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  • Re: 'When will father return'? A case from Wild Crane
    « Reply #12 on: August 14, 2019, 03:48:51 PM »

    Thanks, I didn't know that. I could not find that expression anywhere so I assumed it was an error.

    Never assume. :-\
    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

    Offline hmesker

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    Re: 'When will father return'? A case from Wild Crane
    « Reply #13 on: August 14, 2019, 04:02:26 PM »
    Never assume. :-\

    NOW you tell me, after 10 months?  ;D

    Offline ArtofFugue

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  • Re: 'When will father return'? A case from Wild Crane
    « Reply #14 on: August 16, 2019, 08:06:30 PM »

    NOW you tell me, after 10 months?  ;D

    Better late than never, I guess. ;D

    I'm busy and unable to keep track to read/reply every msg. So I sometimes I reply as-and-when I sees it - may it be 1 week/month/year later. :-\
    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

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    Re: 'When will father return'? A case from Wild Crane
    « Reply #14 on: August 16, 2019, 08:06:30 PM »
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