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Online iwan

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  • Heaven Plate: Special Case - How to chart ??
    « on: November 01, 2018, 03:15:36 PM »
    Hi,
    I am trying to study how to chart Zhi Run Qimen from scratch and confuse about plotting heaven plate that have one special condition:

    The Lead Stem fall into the Center

    Anyone know what is the correct rule to deal with this situation ?

    At the beginning I thought just put the Hour Stem at the SW and done with it.. but just found out
    that it is not always the case...

    The 2 samples that work with above rule is:

    31/12/2018 12:00
    17/04/2018 17:00

    but, is not working with:

    31/12/2018 22:00

    any idea ?

    Thanks...







    Offline Gmuli

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  • Re: Heaven Plate: Special Case - How to chart ??
    « Reply #1 on: November 01, 2018, 07:15:29 PM »
    Hi,
    I am trying to study how to chart Zhi Run Qimen from scratch and confuse about plotting heaven plate that have one special condition:

    The Lead Stem fall into the Center

    Anyone know what is the correct rule to deal with this situation ?

    At the beginning I thought just put the Hour Stem at the SW and done with it.. but just found out
    that it is not always the case...

    The 2 samples that work with above rule is:

    31/12/2018 12:00
    17/04/2018 17:00

    but, is not working with:

    31/12/2018 22:00

    any idea ?

    Thanks...

    Well... I just have to clarify, Zhi Run is the Ju count. Position of the plates is not related to that. There are different ways for positioning some of the other elements(mostly either in circle or following Lou Shu path), but once Ju is calculated it isn't Zhi Run anymore and we get to the rest of the chart plotting.

    As I'm working on calculating Ju in both systems for the beta app someday, won't comment on the other stuff yet as that requires Ju to be already calculated for the Hour School. : )

    P.S. The formulas in the other topic are not 100% accurate, there are some exceptions, so may take a while to synchronize it properly. One example - 1979 Leap Ju days will be on the wrong place, as the Hai/Gui pillar isn't covered by the formula.
     
    So would advice if you are making an app to focus more on the Ju part, the topic for the 3 solstice is very, very useful, but it isn't perfect as all complicated things sometimes are.

    Online iwan

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  • Re: Heaven Plate: Special Case - How to chart ??
    « Reply #2 on: November 01, 2018, 08:22:15 PM »
    Hi Gmuli,

    Nope, I do not plan to make an app... my last programming is Pascal, after Borland closed, I don't plan learning new programming language anymore.. just taking to much of my time...

    I use Numbers for Mac to do the calc and it is not flexible, I know.. just want to learn on how to plot the chart...

    ... for real one, better wait or hope for your app  ;D

    for 1979 Ju case, no, my system detected 1979 as a non-Leap Ju... I made an input mistake for the year 1979 before, and I do modify it and it shows up 1979 as a non leap Ju...

    28/12/1978 as ST01
    11/06/1979 as ST12
    26/06/1979 as ST13
    08/12/1979 as ST24

    23/12/1979 is the start of Yang Dun (ST01)

    Do I make a mistake  ?? ?

    Iwan

    Hi,
    I am trying to study how to chart Zhi Run Qimen from scratch and confuse about plotting heaven plate that have one special condition:

    The Lead Stem fall into the Center

    Anyone know what is the correct rule to deal with this situation ?

    At the beginning I thought just put the Hour Stem at the SW and done with it.. but just found out
    that it is not always the case...

    The 2 samples that work with above rule is:

    31/12/2018 12:00
    17/04/2018 17:00

    but, is not working with:

    31/12/2018 22:00

    any idea ?

    Thanks...

    Well... I just have to clarify, Zhi Run is the Ju count. Position of the plates is not related to that. There are different ways for positioning some of the other elements(mostly either in circle or following Lou Shu path), but once Ju is calculated it isn't Zhi Run anymore and we get to the rest of the chart plotting.

    As I'm working on calculating Ju in both systems for the beta app someday, won't comment on the other stuff yet as that requires Ju to be already calculated for the Hour School. : )

    P.S. The formulas in the other topic are not 100% accurate, there are some exceptions, so may take a while to synchronize it properly. One example - 1979 Leap Ju days will be on the wrong place, as the Hai/Gui pillar isn't covered by the formula.
     
    So would advice if you are making an app to focus more on the Ju part, the topic for the 3 solstice is very, very useful, but it isn't perfect as all complicated things sometimes are.
    « Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 08:48:50 PM by iwan »

    Offline Gmuli

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  • Re: Heaven Plate: Special Case - How to chart ??
    « Reply #3 on: November 01, 2018, 09:14:39 PM »
    Quote
    for 1979 Ju case, yes, my system detected Leap Ju, but I think it is not... or is it should be a Leap Ju year ?

    It isn't.  : )

    All top yuan pillars are Jia/Zi, but the formulas can't handle it accurately.

    Why...

    Lets look at the examples:

    Quote
    If SexNo Amod 15 <= 9, the current Top Yuan Stem-Branch is (SexNo Div 15) * 15 + 1
    If SexNo Amod 15 > 9, the current Top Yuan Stem-Branch is ((SexNo Div 15) + 1) * 15 + 1

    Now, this is very wise approach, the only problem is that it needs some adjustment.

    Lets try it for Gui/Hai pillar, that is SexNo of 60:

    SexNo Amod 15 <= 9

    60 Amod15 = 15 (as it is 4 with 0 remainder and we take the 15 instead of 0 as defined by Amod).

    If we follow the reasoning used should be obvious it will start to mess up in the next steps.

    And here it comes:
    ((SexNo Div 15) + 1) * 15

    60 div 15 = 4
    4+1 = 5
    5*15 = 75
    75+1 = 76


    Of course, we can get it in some range and just turn it to 16, however the problem is that moves it closer to winter solstice and that is not how it is in practice . Not to mention it adds Leap Ju as it gives indication the Top Yuan pillars are different. We can manually compare the top yuan dates and in this case we have topyuan of Sexno 1 and not 16 as 1.Jia/Zi is our top yuan, just few days ahead of the solstice with nothing in 9 days range in the other direction.

    So we have all top yuan pillars with  1.Jia / Zi and there isn't Leap Ju that specific year.
    Meaning the middle top yuan will also take value of Jia Zi and that will be 6/26/1979 11:56:00 PM


    However, there are more problems I think, working on finding all of them, but as I'm working on other apps as well, I can't focus fully on it yet.




    Edit:
    Quote
    28/12/1978 as ST01
    11/06/1979 as ST12
    26/06/1979 as ST13
    08/12/1979 as ST24

    23/12/1979 is the start of Yang Dun (ST01)

    Indeed!All the cycles needed for the non leap ju and if you check 26/06 you can see its Jia/Zi. : )



    « Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 09:23:51 PM by Gmuli »

    Online iwan

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  • Re: Heaven Plate: Special Case - How to chart ??
    « Reply #4 on: November 01, 2018, 09:43:45 PM »
    Hi Gmuli,

    No, I did not use that amod calc... instead i have just use partially:

    SexNo = 60

    if result <= 60 then
       Quotient(60,15) x 15 + 1 which in this case is 1 (TopYuan for Sexno 60)

    another example: SexNo = 20,

    if result > 60 then
       (Quotient(20,15) x 15 + 1) - 60 = 5 x 15 + 1 - 60 = 75 + 1 - 60 = 76 - 60 = 16
     
    I think the amod think is not entirely correct or wrong... I just think amod as the real mod... of course with modif

    Iwan



    Online iwan

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  • Re: Heaven Plate: Special Case - How to chart ??
    « Reply #5 on: November 01, 2018, 09:47:21 PM »
    also, for finding the ju leap year or non ju leap year, I did not follow the article...
    I've just compare the 2 top yuan.. if 360 or 15x24 then it is NOT leap yu...

    Online iwan

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  • Re: Heaven Plate: Special Case - How to chart ??
    « Reply #6 on: November 01, 2018, 11:27:29 PM »
    Nevermind... found the answer @ JY Compendium

    Hi,
    I am trying to study how to chart Zhi Run Qimen from scratch and confuse about plotting heaven plate that have one special condition:

    The Lead Stem fall into the Center

    Anyone know what is the correct rule to deal with this situation ?

    At the beginning I thought just put the Hour Stem at the SW and done with it.. but just found out
    that it is not always the case...

    The 2 samples that work with above rule is:

    31/12/2018 12:00
    17/04/2018 17:00

    but, is not working with:

    31/12/2018 22:00

    any idea ?

    Thanks...

    Offline Gmuli

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  • Re: Heaven Plate: Special Case - How to chart ??
    « Reply #7 on: November 01, 2018, 11:50:56 PM »
    Not my place to correct your equations I guess, just have to mention that 9 days rule is important part of Zhi Run count. : )



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    Re: Heaven Plate: Special Case - How to chart ??
    « Reply #7 on: November 01, 2018, 11:50:56 PM »
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