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Offline divinerchan

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  • Bazi is based on the solar calendar
    « on: August 15, 2020, 12:53:21 PM »
    八字是個陽曆玩意
    Bazi is based on the solar calendar


    八字當中每一個字,猶如八個訊號發射站,不停發放能量出來。尤其是地支,它們提供了能量支持天干,天干則使用它本身的能量,及地支對它的支持,影響命主的命運。說是影響可能有點不當,因為命運是命主招來的,八字只是「反映」命主的各種狀態,猶如溫度計顯示着環境的溫度一樣,沒理由說成天氣很熱,是因為溫度計的指標很高的。

    Each of the eight characters in a set of bazi is like a signal transmitting station, which continuously emits energy. This is especially so for the branches; they provide the energy to support the stems, and the stems use its own energy and the support from the branches to affect the fate of the Destiny Holder. It may be inappropriate to say that the characters affect / influence the Destiny Holder as the characters only "reflect" the various states of the Destiny Holder’s fate, just like the thermometer reflecting the temperature of the environment and not that the weather is hot because the indicator of the thermometer shows a high reading.


    地支的確很重要,天干賴之以為根,就如一棵植物,失去泥土的養份,即使不凋謝,也不能茂盛到哪裏。不過,四個地支也不是等量齊觀的。當中的「月令」(月柱地支)特別重要,因為它發放的能量是地支中最大的。原因很簡單,因為月令代表季節,例如當月令屬火的時候,代表夏天,到處都很炎熱,它的影響力無遠弗屆,而且是持續力強,你夏日炎炎下開了冷氣機很舒適,當冷氣機關了之後,就再熱起來了,這就體現了月令的持續力。

    Branches are indeed very important. The stems rely on it as the root, akin to a plant; if it loses the nutrients of the soil, even if it does not wither, it can't flourish. However, the four branches are not of equal importance. The "Month Commander" (Month Branch) is particularly important because it emits the largest energy among the Earth Branches.

    The reason is very simple; the Month branch represents the season. For example, when the Month Commander is a fire, it represents summer. It is hot everywhere. Its influence is far-reaching and continuous. For example, if you turn on the air conditioner in the summer heat, it feels comfortable. When the air-conditioning is turned off, it heats up again, which reflects the continuous power of the Month Commander.



    另一個是時支,它代表着一天的循環,例如屬水的時支,一定是晚上。它同樣影響着溫度,只是沒有月令那麼明顯而已,因為無論如何,晚上溫度總比中午低一些,不是嗎。

    The other is the hour branch, which represents the hour of the day. For example, a “water” hour branch must be at night. It also reflects the temperature of a chart, while it is not as obvious as the month branch, the temperature at night will normally be lower than at noon, right?


    反觀年支或日支,即是全都屬火,也不會推高溫度計一度半度。所以無論是月支或時支,它都有點特殊地位。特殊之處,在於它的影響力,會遍佈全局,也就是說,其它七個字全都受它們影響,特別是月令。比方說,年支屬金,月干屬木,可是年支是不會剋月干的;可是倒過來,若月支屬金,年干屬木,則月支卻會剋年干;而其實這個屬金的月支,不單會剋年干的木,只要其它六個字有屬木的,都會被它所剋,只是輕重不同而已。

    On the other hand, the Year or Day branches, even if they are fire elements, does not affect the temperature of the chart. So be it the Month or the Hour branches, either of then has a special status for a bazi. The special thing is that its influence will affect the whole chart, that is to say, all the other seven characters are affected by them, especially the month order.

    For example, if the Year branch is metal, and the Month stem is wood, but the Year branch will not overcome the Month stem; but the other way round, if the Month branch is metal and the Year stem is wood, the Month branch will harm the Year stem; in fact, this Month metal stem will not only harm the Year wood stem, but also any of the other characters in the bazi that are wood. As long as any of the characters are wood,  they will all be harmed by the Month metal stem with different severity.



    舉個具體一點的例子,八字法則裏,有一個情況叫做「傷官見官」,這個組合代表人際關係不好。假如一個八字,它的月令是傷官,而天干卻有一個正官,無論這顆正官落在哪個天干,都代表命主的人際關係不好。這時便得看有沒有財星或印星作化解,若沒有的話,真的要勸一勸命主多點修心養性,否則運氣不好的時候,便容易跟人爭執闖禍了。

    To give a specific example, there is a situation in bazi known as "the Hurting Officer meets the Officer." This combination represents a bad interpersonal relationship. If a bazi has its Month branch as a Hurting Officer, and an Officer star in the stems (regardless of which stem), it means that the Destiny Holder's interpersonal relationship is not good. At this time, you have to see whether there are Wealth or Resource stars in the chart to mitigate the impact. If not, you may want to persuade the Destiny Holder to take up meditation or self reflection because such Destiny Holder when out of luck, will find himself or herself easily quarreling with others / causing trouble.


    回想一遍,月令與時支特別重要,都是因為太陽,春夏秋冬源於太陽,早午晚也源於太陽,它們的能量就是直接來自太陽,所以八字是個使用陽曆系統的算命術,與陰曆(農曆)關係不大。

    Recall that the Month and Hour branches are particularly important because of the sun. The seasons of spring, summer, autumn and winter are due to the sun. The different stages in a day, morning, afternoon and evening are also because of the sun. Their energy comes directly from the sun, so bazi is a Chinese Metaphysic (CM) study that relies on the solar calendar system. The lunar calendar is not relevant.

    (Thanks JT for the translation.)
    -- Yan Chan Bazi Consultation service
    http://www.chanyiyan.com

    Offline ArtofFugue

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  • Re: Bazi is based on the solar calendar
    « Reply #1 on: August 15, 2020, 02:06:32 PM »
    So far I've been using solar calendar for Bazi and lunar calendar for ZWDS and it's all been fine.
    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

    Offline ArtofFugue

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  • Re: Bazi is based on the solar calendar
    « Reply #2 on: August 19, 2020, 10:44:31 PM »
    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

    Offline divinerchan

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  • Re: Bazi is based on the solar calendar
    « Reply #3 on: August 20, 2020, 01:25:27 AM »
    But Jerry King thinks otherwise: https://fivearts.info/fivearts/index.php?topic=1983.0
    I read the essay but I didn't see any theory to support how and why using Lunar to bazi. Just suggest people to give it a try.

    Ok. So do you know the theory about Lunar in Bazi?
    -- Yan Chan Bazi Consultation service
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    Offline BillionaireboyLam

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  • Re: Bazi is based on the solar calendar
    « Reply #4 on: August 20, 2020, 02:08:29 AM »
    Chinese calendar has always been lunar based.
    They only adopted the gregorian calendar in the past 100 years.
    Bazi is 1500 years old do the math.

    Most bazi software online converts your solar birthday to lunar birthday before plotting your chart.
    Very simple 8/19/2020 how would you plot this bazi chart?

    If you say 庚子,甲申,乙未。 You are not using the solar calendar. You are using the lunar calendar.
     七月初二 July 2nd in the Chinese Calendar. All bazi is based on Chinese Calendar.

    If you are using modern software to that lets you enter your solar birthday, it automatically reverts it back to lunar.
    « Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 06:02:52 AM by serenade »
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    Offline divinerchan

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  • Re: Bazi is based on the solar calendar
    « Reply #5 on: August 20, 2020, 10:06:43 PM »
    Chinese calendar has always been lunar based.
    They only adopted the gregorian calendar in the past 100 years.
    Bazi is 1500 years old do the math.

    Most bazi software online converts your solar birthday to lunar birthday before plotting your chart.
    Very simple 8/19/2020 how would you plot this bazi chart?

    If you say 庚子,甲申,乙未。 You are not using the solar calendar. You are using the lunar calendar.
     七月初二 July 2nd in the Chinese Calendar. All bazi is based on Chinese Calendar.

    If you are using modern software to that lets you enter your solar birthday, it automatically reverts it back to lunar.
    [/quote]

    The lunar calendar is a calendar system based on the moon and the planetary bodies. Without the position of the sun, the moon does not know whether it is in spring or autumn, or whether it is round or crescent shaped.

    Could I then ask you which ancient bazi texts or books chronicles that the month pillars of a set of bazi are determined by using the lunar calendar? And I also like to know how one then deals with a leap month in the lunar calendar.

    In addition, what was the first bazi document 1500 years ago?

    >Very simple 8/19/2020 how would you plot this bazi chart?
    >If you say 庚子,甲申,乙未。 You are not using the solar calendar. You are using the lunar calendar.
    >七月初二 July 2nd in the Chinese Calendar. All bazi is based on Chinese Calendar.
    8/19/2020 is 七月初一 but not 七月初二. But if you used adjustment of full moon adjustment, it is another issue. And I wonder which Chinese Calendar or software figure out 8/19/2020 is 乙未日?
    « Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 06:03:22 AM by serenade »
    -- Yan Chan Bazi Consultation service
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    Offline BillionaireboyLam

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  • Re: Bazi is based on the solar calendar
    « Reply #6 on: August 20, 2020, 10:51:23 PM »
    Ok let's change history to match your post.
    The Chinese instead creating their own calendar adopted the western solar calendar 5000 years ago.
    Bazi is now plotted with 30 day months instead of 28days based on the phases of the moon.
    Bazi now base the seasons on solar months, instead of using the 24 节气 that the ancient people used to measure the seasons.

    Now go out and plot charts like this in the future and lets see the results of your readings on here.

    Very simple.

    Note: 命书 is the accumulated knowledge of over 2000 uears of knowledge since the beginning of Chinese Culture.
    There were many precursor books before  命书 like Huai Nan Zi.

    Oh and you are right 8/19 is 七月初一。Human mistake on my end.
    Thanks for pointing that out.
    « Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 06:03:59 AM by serenade »
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    Offline BillionaireboyLam

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  • Re: Bazi is based on the solar calendar
    « Reply #7 on: August 20, 2020, 11:39:55 PM »
    I forgot to mention that if bazi is solar based we need to emphasize the monthmaster instead of daymaster which is based on the movement of the moon.
    Hence why it changes elements every two days.
    Moon travels approximately 30 degrees in 2 days. Hence 2 day element change.

    人生最怕一事無成,卻說 自己知足常樂
    In life we are most afraid of not being successful and accomplished but, go around telling themselves and others to that they are content.

    Offline BillionaireboyLam

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  • Re: Bazi is based on the solar calendar
    « Reply #8 on: August 21, 2020, 12:16:06 PM »
    Also @divinerchan
    If you know to revert back to July 1st, of the Lunar calendar how do you not know that bazi is based on the Lunar Calendar?  :D :D :D
    人生最怕一事無成,卻說 自己知足常樂
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  • Re: Bazi is based on the solar calendar
    « Reply #9 on: August 21, 2020, 06:21:28 PM »
    post removed
    « Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 06:04:21 AM by serenade »
    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

    Offline BillionaireboyLam

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  • Re: Bazi is based on the solar calendar
    « Reply #10 on: August 21, 2020, 10:50:27 PM »
    post removed
    « Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 06:04:29 AM by serenade »
    人生最怕一事無成,卻說 自己知足常樂
    In life we are most afraid of not being successful and accomplished but, go around telling themselves and others to that they are content.

    Offline divinerchan

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  • Re: Bazi is based on the solar calendar
    « Reply #11 on: August 23, 2020, 02:14:49 AM »
    Ok kets change history to match your post.
    The Chinese instead creating their own calendar adopted the western solar calendar 5000 years ago.
    Bazi is now plotted with 30 day months instead of 28days based on the phases of the moon.
    Bazi now base the seasons on solar months, instead of using the 24 节气 that the ancient people used to measure the seasons.

    Now go out and plot charts like this in the future and lets see the results of your readings on here.

    Very simple.

    Note: 命书 is the accumulated knowledge of over 2000 uears of knowledge since the beginning of Chinese Culture.
    There were many precursor books before  命书 like Huai Nan Zi.

    Oh and you are right 8/19 is 七月初一。Human mistake on my end.
    Thanks for pointing that out.
    Sadly unlike some member on here. I don't have the special privilege to go back and correct it.

    八字如何使用陽曆
    How to use the Solar calendar in Bazi


    請恕我無法就你提出的論點一一回應,雖然我很願意這樣做,但因為我的英文很差,一字一句都是網友替我無償翻譯的。所以我決定主動多寫一些八字使用陽曆的理據出來,希望這樣勞煩人家少一點,而且比較踏實。

    Please forgive me for not being able to respond to your arguments in a timely manner. I would have liked very much to do so but am handicapped by my command of English, requiring help from my friend to translate my replies from mandarin to english word by word. As such, I decided to pre-emptively write about the use of the Gregorian calendar in bazi in order to try to reduce some of this hassle for my friend.


    因為現在電腦流行,起八字盤已無需拿着萬年曆來查表格,好處是方便了用戶,壞處就是讓很多學者完全忽視了盤式的組合因素。

    Because computers are now popular, there is no need to use the 萬年曆 perpetual calendar to arrive at a set of bazi. The advantage is that it is convenient for users, but the disadvantage being that many users has overlooked the building blocks from manually arranging a set of bazi / chart.


    首先,所謂八字中「寅月」「卯月」…等,是節氣的代名詞,每一個月份都是由一個「節」、一個「氣」構成。這些基本的理論,很多八字書都會有說明的。而「節」與「氣」,都是由陽曆而來,因為它是由太陽與地球的相對位置而釐定的。而這也是季節的來源。

    Firstly, the 「寅月」"yin yue", 「卯月」"mao yue"... etc. in bazi are synonymous with solar terms. Every month includes one "jie" and one "qi". Many bazi books will explain these basic theories.  The "jie" and "qi" both come from the solar calendar, because they are determined by the relative position of the sun and the earth. And this is also the source of the season.

    Below is a table of the branches with corresponding periods, jies and qis.
    24 Solar Terms

    Month Branch節 (Ecliptic longitude)氣 (Ecliptic longitude)Solar date range (approximately)
    Yín - 寅
    立春 (315°)
    雨水 (330°)
    2月4日~3月5日
    Mǎo - 卯
    驚蟄 (345°)
    春分 (0°)
    3月6日~4月4日
    Chén - 辰
    清明 (15°)
    穀雨 (30°)
    4月5日~5月5日
    Sì - 巳
    立夏 (45°)
    小滿 (60°)
    5月6日~6月6日
    Wǔ - 午
    芒種 (75°)
    夏至 (90°)
    6月7日~7月7日
    Wèi - 未
    小暑 (105°)
    大暑 (120°)
    7月8日~8月7日
    Shēn - 申
    立秋 (135°)
    處暑 (150°)
    8月8日~9月8日
    Yǒu - 酉
    白露 (165°)
    秋分 (180°)
    9月9日~10月8日
    Xū - 戌
    寒露 (195°)
    霜降 (210°)
    10月9日~11月7日
    Hài - 亥
    立冬 (225°)
    小雪 (240°)
    11月8日~12月7日
    Zǐ - 子
    大雪 (255°)
    冬至 (270°)
    12月8日~1月5日
    Chǒu - 丑
    小寒 (285°)
    大寒 (300°)
    1月6日~2月3日
    Reference: https://www.travelchinaguide.com/intro/focus/solar-term.htm


    反觀月亮,我見過有人提出過八字以「正月初一」起「寅月」、「二月初一」起「卯月」等,但眾所周知,月球是與季節無關的,而所謂的「正月」讓人知道它處於新春,那是因為編製曆書的人,人手調校出來的,調校的方式,是在某些日子,加插一個「陰曆月」,即是所謂的「閏月」;但請謹記這是一個人為的操作,而不是天上星體的規律。如果編纂曆書者不作此校正,就會出現正月初一發生在仲秋日子的情況。

    In contrast to the moon, I have seen people mentioning that bazi starts with the first day of the first lunar month "Yinyue", and the first day of the second lunar month "Maoyue" and so on. But as we all know, the moon has nothing to do with the seasons.

    What is termed as 正月 or the first month is just to let people know that Spring is here. These calendars are created by people manually,  by inserting a 陰曆月 "lunar month" for adjustment, which is the so-called "leap month" where necessary; but please be reminded that all these are “man-made”, not a law of the stars in the sky. If the creators of the lunar calendar do not make this correction, it will happen that the first day of the first lunar month falls on the mid-autumn day.



    以陰曆起八字月柱另一個要解決的問題,是「閏月」到底如何處理。例如「閏七月」,它是不是計入「申月」呢,即是一年有兩個「申月」,佔六十日?是不是這樣呢?這都是我以前聽過提出以陰曆起八字的人,沒有交待的事情。

    Using the lunar calendar to set up a bazi, another problem to be solved is how to deal with the "leap month". For example, the "leap seventh month" - does it mean that there are two 申 months and accounting for sixty days? Is this the case? The above are amongst some of the areas that advocates of the lunar calendar do not have an answer / explanation.



    至於你提到的《命書》、《淮南子》,可否引一些相關的章節出來給大家參詳一下?

    As for the Life book or "Ming Shu" and "Huai Nan Zi" you mentioned, could we trouble you to quote some relevant chapters for us to reference?
    « Last Edit: August 23, 2020, 02:21:52 AM by divinerchan »
    -- Yan Chan Bazi Consultation service
    http://www.chanyiyan.com

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  • Re: Bazi is based on the solar calendar
    « Reply #12 on: August 23, 2020, 02:46:27 AM »
    如果你英文不好我们可说中文啊。

    BaZi is basically a astrological chart, so of course it measures the Sun as well. Doesn't mean that bazi is solar. BaZi is based on the Chinese Lunar Calendar.
    You have to convert the Solar Gregorian Calendar back to the Chinese Lunar Calendar to even  plot a bazi correctly.
    If you know you have to revert back to July 1st of the Chinese Lunar Calendar to plot the bazi for 8/20/2020 how do you not know that BaZi is based on the Chinese Lunar Calendar?
    That is all i'm saying. Like i said 24 节气 is called the 24 Solar Terms in English. I mentioned it in previous posts already.

    https://fivearts.info/fivearts/index.php?topic=13177.msg139121#msg139121

    Also Ancient Chinese Astrology and BaZi is not that simple as it also correlates with the Big Dipper Direction.
    As i have already pointed out in this post:

    https://fivearts.info/fivearts/index.php?topic=14259.msg199782#msg199782

    BaZi also can not be completely solar based because we have 60 甲子 and 5 甲子句. These are not used to measure Monthly cycles.
    These are big cycles lasting over 60 years based on planetary movements of Saturn. So are we suppose to say BaZi is Saturn Based then?

    Why you don't show us how to plot the solar bazi chart for 8/20/2020 so we know the difference between the lunar calendar method?

    淮南子 is a book based on natural observations of the seasons, from the Earth's perspective. That is where the 24 solar terms come from.

    You Asked In addition, what was the first bazi document 1500 years ago?
    I mentioned MingShu and Huai Nan Zi.. I was simply answering your question.
    Huai Nan Zi is not a bazi book, it is a book based on the natural observation of the Earth.
    Which is where the 24 solar terms originated and the correction and formation of the modern Chinese Lunar Calendar.

    Second i don't need to prove anything to you, you can take my teachings or leave it. It doesn't matter to me if you accept it or not.
    I'm just pointing out my pov.
    Like i said you can go and plot charts the solar method if you want as long as your accurate with it and; you get accurate predictions from it.
    Then good for you.

    Also Why is the Month Pillar called 提纲 and the DayMaster is called the 日主.
    Why in Vedic/Western/Babylonian/Chinese Astrology 太阴 or Moon is considered the utmost importance.

    And Maybe you can share with us some of your bazi perspective in Chinese As well very interested in how you derive some of your predictions:

    https://fivearts.info/fivearts/index.php?topic=19680.msg209943#msg209943

    不如你也拿,你如何看八字的方法出來給大家參詳一下







    « Last Edit: August 23, 2020, 03:03:38 AM by BillionaireboyLam »
    人生最怕一事無成,卻說 自己知足常樂
    In life we are most afraid of not being successful and accomplished but, go around telling themselves and others to that they are content.

    Offline fengshuiartist

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  • Re: Bazi is based on the solar calendar
    « Reply #13 on: August 23, 2020, 03:24:49 AM »
    bazi is actually solar base on learning from my teachers. All the 5 grandmaster use solar.  Even the creator of bazi use solar. I know there is some teacher like lilly chung that uses lunar.    Also map out your charts manually to double check. some software have wrong algorithm.     

    Solar calendar is more accurate to the people that i've look at.   besides, chinese astrology is using relation to the sun rather than the moon. hence, solar is used. If you have doubt. test it out. that's all you can do. Let the experiment decide and don't take anyone's word for it. map both charts and ask clients to verify which one matches better.   I know the field has a difference of opinion to which calendar to use. Even with feng shui there's argument on which calendar to use.    I use solar calendar.  It makes more logical sense to me.
    « Last Edit: August 23, 2020, 03:28:22 AM by fengshuiartist »

    Offline BillionaireboyLam

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  • Re: Bazi is based on the solar calendar
    « Reply #14 on: August 23, 2020, 03:27:27 AM »
    bazi is actually solar base on learning from my teachers. All the 5 grandmaster use solar.  Even the creator of bazi use solar. I know there is some teacher like lilly chung that uses lunar.    Also map out your charts manually to double check. some software have wrong algorithm.     

    Solar calendar is more accurate to the people that i've look at.    If you have doubt. test it out. that's all you can do. Let the experiment decide and don't take anyone's word for it. map both charts and ask clients to verify which one matches better.   I know the field has a difference of opinion to which calendar to use. Even with feng shui there's argument on which calendar to use.    I use solar calendar.  It makes more logical sense to me.

    How would you plot a chart using 8/22/2020 solar method?
    人生最怕一事無成,卻說 自己知足常樂
    In life we are most afraid of not being successful and accomplished but, go around telling themselves and others to that they are content.

    five arts forum

    Re: Bazi is based on the solar calendar
    « Reply #14 on: August 23, 2020, 03:27:27 AM »
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