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Offline ren

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  • Rob wealth and Self Element Discusion - 5Arts.net
    « on: April 16, 2015, 01:10:01 AM »
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    I see "Quote" but it is proper to "Reply"

    Offline sLuToSUN

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  • Re: Rob wealth and Self Element Discusion - 5Arts.net
    « Reply #1 on: December 09, 2019, 07:37:01 PM »
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    Sorry I don't have the original 5Arts.net URL or post date. I think originally posted by LearnBazi (Calvin Yap). Enjoy and comment.

    ----------------------------------


    Text quote from  http://a3618.blogbus.com/logs/54174415.html [nofollow]
    八字論命-比肩.劫財,上海五行命理

    Rob wealth and Self Element

    Translation start

    偏印劫刃,出祖離家,外象謙合尚義,內心狠毒無知,有刻薄之意,無慈慧之心。(此言偏印、劫財、羊刃露出,又是忌神,無制無合。)
    When the indirect resource, and rob wealth, and the Yang Ren protrude at the heaven stem, and it act as a inauspicious god, and when these god does not being countered or combined, it denote from outward appearance it looks modest and loyal, but the inner self is vicious and ignorant, mean, and is not compassionate.

    比劫之人氣量小,性傲不馴,有錯不悟。(此言比劫通根透幹,又為日主忌神之人。)
    劫財敗財,好高鶩遠。
    When the Rob Wealth is protrude and well rooted, and it act as the inauspicious god to self, one attribute is proud and arrogant, and does not comprehend one own fault. The Rob wealth will “defeat” the wealth, and these people always overestimating their own strength.

    劫財羊刃兩頭居,外面光滑內面虛。(此言劫財羊刃分別位於年時兩幹,又為忌神。)
    When the rob wealth and the “yang Ren” reside at both end of pillar, outward it looks well groomed, but inwards it diffident and timid. It means the rob wealth and the yang ren is residing at the year stem and the hour stem, and acting as the inauspicious god.

    亡神比劫往來,佛口蛇心。(此言比劫為忌神,比劫又坐亡神,為人口蜜腹劍。)
    When the Rob Wealth is the inauspicious god, and it is sitting on top of a “wang shen”, is malicious and duplicitous.

    身旺,比肩強,應避免營商或從事投機冒險行業,最好是從公職或經營穩定性生意。
    When the self is strong, and the “bi jian” is strong, should avoid undertake or involve in risky speculated investment industries. It’s best to engage in the official position, or engage in a stable business.
       
    劫財入用,骨骼配合至佳。比肩迭迭,一生少病。(此言比肩多,身旺。
    日主弱,用神為正印或比肩幫扶者,主得雙親或兄妹之寵愛,並倍得親蔭或遺產。
    When the self is weak, and the useful god is direct resource, or with the aid of “bi jian”, denote self will have the support and care from both parent and sibling. And might have some share in inheritance as well.

    日值財,時為劫,父興子敗。(此言日支為財,時支為比劫奪財,主自身富貴榮顯,但家業傳到子息手中便開始敗落。)
    When the day branch reside the “direct wealth”, and when the hour branch reside the “rob wealth” element, it denote oneself once is rich and honor, but the family property will start to decline once inherit to later generation.

    比劫重迭,父母壽元難延。(此言比劫多,劫奪財星,一般是父親壽短的標誌。)
    When the “rob wealth” is abundant in the chart, it will seize the wealth star, most of the time it denote the sign of father who have short longevity.

    日主弱,比肩坐日支,主妻子能幹,多得幫助。財旺身弱,有比劫扛財幫身,主妻賢。
    When the self is weak, and the “self” element is sitting at the day branch, it denote self’s wife is capable, and manage to assist self. When the wealth is abundant and the self is weak, but there occur the rob wealth to help and sustain the wealth, denote the person wife is virtuous.
     
    男命若見比肩劫財多,必克妻再娶。比肩劫財,破財傷妻。比劫較多,晚婚有利。羊刃劫財迭迭,花燭重輝之兆。
    For a Man’s life, when there occur abundant of ‘self” element and “rob wealth” element, certainly it will counter the wife and remarried. “self” and “rob wealth” can destruct the wealth and hurt the “wife star”. People with abundant of “rob wealth” in the chart, is advantages to married late.

    梟劫重重,易晚婚。(劫財奪妻星,偏印奪妻星原神傷食,故雲。)
    When the indirect resource and rob wealth is abundant, will married late. (as the rob wealth will rob the wife star, and the indirect resource will hurt the eating god which is the source that birth the wealth)

    比劫如林,兄弟姐妹成群。
    When the “rob wealth” is abundant, will have a lot sibling.

    比劫臨貴人,比劫坐祿和將星為喜,兄弟姐妹富貴。
    “Rob wealth” can attract noble people. When “rob wealth” sitting in the state of “lu” and act as the “jiang xing” and is favorable to self, denote sibling will be prosper and noble.

    殺旺食輕,印弱逢財,得比肩敵殺,主得手足助力。

    When the “7 killing” is prosperous, and the eating god is “weak”, when the “direct resource” is weak, an there occur the wealth, but with the present of “self element” to overcome the “7 killings”, this denote self will have the help of henchman.

    translation end
    ------------------------------------------------------
    I will try and translate the rest bit by bit

    some of the text were quoted from Yuan hai Zi Ping, which is under those poetic chapter.

    It is good that these text comes with the decipher from this author


    « Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 05:40:45 AM by Shi Xiang »


    Rob wealth and Self Element

    日主旺而比劫多,主手足敗家不和。(此言日主強,比劫多,劫奪財星。)
    When the self is prosperous, and there occur abundant of “Bi jian and Bi jie”, denote one’s henchman/ friends will result failure of family business, and does not get along well with them. (It says when the self is strong, and with abundant of Bi Jie, Jie will size the wealth star).
     
    官輕傷重,比劫生傷,主遭手足之累。官弱食傷強,又遇比劫,為兄弟所累。
    When the direct officer is “light” (weak) but the hurting officer is heavy (strong), Bi Jie will give birth to hurting officer, denote self will be weary by subordinate. When Direct Officer is weak, but eating god is strong, will be weary by “brother” (sibling).

    財弱比劫旺,兄弟反目。比劫重重無制伏,暗損門風,兄弟無情。
    When the wealth is weak but the bi jie is prosperous, self will quarrel with sibling. When the Bi Jie is abundant and strong and does not being counter and subdue, 暗損門風, sibling is ruthless and merciless

    比劫羊刃者,兄弟不睦,常犯小人口舌。(此言比劫羊刃為忌神。)
    Chart with Bi Jie and yang Ren, does not get along well with sibling, often found guilty about bad people bickering. (When the Bi Jie and Yang Ren is the inauspicious god)

    日主弱,四柱無比劫印綬,如幼行比劫運,幼年難免孤苦,由堂兄姐或朋友養大成人。
    When the self is weak, and within the four pillar there does not have Bi Jie and Resource, when the self of such formation undergoes “Bi Jie” luck during younger days, will be hard to avoid the lonely life, will be raised or bought up by sibling and with the help of friends ( does not favor by the parents)

    日主弱,四柱無印綬,只依賴比劫幫身,主不得雙親之力而依*手足之福以成家立業。
    When the self is weak, but within the four pillar there does not have Resource, and only relied on “Bi Jie” to assist self to balance the chart. Such a formation of chart will not gain the assistance from both parents, instead will relied on “subordinate” to start a career, and family. (The parent here can meat superior as well).

    劫財羊刃,傷妻破財。(此言身旺,劫財羊刃為忌。)
    “Jie, friend element” Yang Ren, will hurt the wife and destroy the wealth. This manifest when the Jie Cai and Yang Ren is inauspicious.

    劫財羊刃有官殺,台閣之臣。(身不要太旺或太弱。)
    When the occurrence of Jie Cai and Yang Ren come with Guan(Direct Officer) and Sha (7 killings), will gain high authority and position in government sector (I think). (This manifest when the self is not too strong or not too weak)

    比肩逢祿,兄弟名高。(此言比肩坐自身之祿。)
    When Bi Jian sitting on top of “Lu”, or reside in the branch that resulted Lu, denote sibling is honor and high.

    身旺財弱,運行比劫,疾病破財。身弱財多,逢比劫運發財。
    When the self is strong and the wealth is weak, and undergoes the luck of Bi Jie, will befell sickness and lost of wealth. When the self is weak and the wealth is abundant, when undergoes the luck of Bi Jie, will be prosper- (remark: It is not the case when the bi jie from luck is transform to other element).

    命旺,遇比劫大運流年,克父克妻,不利婚姻。

    When the self is prosperous, meeting the luck of Bi Jie in the 10 years luck pillar, denote counter the wife and father, is not favor for marriage.

    生地相逢,壯年不祿。(此言劫印重重,又行日主長生之地,主死。)
    When the Jie and the Direct Resource is abundant and prosperous, and one’s self is undergoing the luck of Chang Sheng to self, denote death.

    遇比用財纏萬貫,比得滋扶。(此言財多身弱,以比劫奪財為用,比劫逢生得助者,主富。)
    When the wealth is too many and the self is weak, Bi Jie is used to seized the wealth. If the Bi Jie is being birth, will prosper (remark: refer to luck).

    夫妻隨娶隨傷,蓋為比肩伏馬。(此言原局財坐比劫之上,行克制比劫的運程可以有婚姻,但再行比劫運程則有生離死別之憂。)
    Within the chart, when the wealth is sitting on top of Bi Jie, when undergoing the luck that can counter the “Bi Jie”, will have marriage. But if it undergoes the luck of Bi Jie, will have the sorrow of separated by the life and death.

    陽剛陰柔,兄強弟弱。陰盛陽衰,弟必強兄。
    -

    比肩要逢官殺制。(此言比肩旺為病。)
    When the Bi Jian act as sickness (too strong), it is prefer to have direct officer of 7 killings to subdue/ counter it.

    日幹無氣,遇劫為強。(此言日主弱,要用比劫扶身。)
    When the self is weak, it is needed for a bi jie to assist self


    « Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 08:15:12 AM by Shi Xiang »


    生地相逢,壯年不祿。(此言劫印重重,又行日主長生之地,主死。)
    When the Jie and the Direct Resource is abundant and prosperous, and one’s self is undergoing the luck of Chang Sheng to self, denote death.


    was just wondering what (undergoing the luck of Chang Sheng to Self) means?

    hi ,my understanding towards the phrase is as following

    for example Ren is chang Shen at Shen.

            DM                      LP
    Ren  Ren   Xin   Ding   Geng
    Wu  Shen  You  Hai     Shen

    undergoes the luck of Shen might dead

    so when the day pillar meets itself it can denote death? does the stem play a role or only the branch?



    http://www.fivearts.net/index.php/topic,1312.15.html

    Hi Learnbazi,

    Thanks. Great translation~O0.

    Would You like to start the discussion?

    Ten Gods (十神 shi shen) also known as Six Gods (六神 liu shen). Ten Gods can be grouped into two categories 吉凶神, ji xiong shen, depending on their characteristics.

    ji shen 吉神 are Zheng Guan, Zheng Yin, Shi Shen and Zheng/Pian Cai

    xiong shen 凶神 are Xiao Shen梟神(or Pian Yin), Shang Guan, Jie Cai and Qi Sha

    Bi Jian is considered as neutral.

    Under the concept of Six Gods, the destructive relationships are,

    Shang Guan       X      Zheng Guan

    Shi Shen           X        Qi Sha

    Zheng Cai           X        Zheng Yin

    Pian Cai            X        Pian Yin

    Zheng Guan        X        Jie Cai

    Qi Sha              X        Bi Jian

    Zheng Yin           X        Shang Guan

    Pian Yin            X        Shi Shen

    Bi Jian              X         Pian Cai

    Jie Cai              X         Zheng Cai

    (the relationships in red are considered as more critical).

    -----
    relic

    « Last Edit: March 15, 2008, 12:45:27 AM by relic »
    For the God that is too strong, the other god is used to control it. (e.g. Shi Shen control Qi Sha). This doesn't take into consideration whether DM is strong or not. Am I right?

    This is far too general. Yes and No.

    Suppose DM is far too weak, likely to end up as cong ge 從格, then Shi Shen can be Ji Shen 忌神 if the chart follow Guan Sha.

    Suppose DM is wood yet born in winter (both water and metal in the chart) we call this han mu xiang yang 寒木向陽, then to apply the concept of tiao hou 調候, where fire Shi Shen is used to control metal Guan Sha. Yes will not take into consideration the strength of DM.

    The concept of liu shen xiang sheng 六神相生 and liu shen xiang ke 六神相克 is important in analyzing bing yao 病藥.

    ------
    relic

    Basically are only production and restraining relationship between ten gods.

    Six Gods Mutually Growth (六神相生 Liu Shen Xiang Sheng).

    All Yin or all Yang Six Gods and Opposite polarity to DM.

    Zheng Yin produces Jie Cai
    Jie Cai produces Shang Guan
    Shang Guan produces Zheng Cai
    Zheng Cai produces Zheng Guan
    Zheng Guan produces Zheng Yin

    All Yin or all Yang Six Gods and Same polarity as DM.

    Pian Yin produces Bi Jian
    Bi Jian produces Shi Shen
    Shi Shen produces Pian Cai
    Pian Cai produces Qi Sha
    Qi Sha produces Pian Yin

    Six Gods Mutually Destruct (六神相克 Liu Shen Xiang Ke).

    All Yin or all Yang Six Gods and Opposite polarity to DM.

    Zheng Yin restrains Shang Guan
    Shang Guan restrains Zheng Guan
    Zheng Guan restrains Jie Cai
    Jie Cai restrains Zheng Cai
    Zheng Cai restrains Zheng Yin

    All Yin or all Yang Six Gods and Same polarity as DM.

    Pian Yin restrains Shi Shen
    Shi Shen restrains Qi Sha
    Qi Sha restrains Bi Jian
    Bi Jian restrains Pian Cai
    Pian Cai restrains Pian Yin

    ------
    relic

    "analyzing bing yao 病藥." ?

    Analyze the chart in terms of weak and strong 旺衰 wang shuai to determine bing yao 病藥. This is how we derived Xi Yong Shen 喜用神.

    Again should be noted that even without looking at wang shuai the influence of ten gods within a single pillar, adjacent pillars, within the chart or LC AP is real, favorable or unfavorable. For example Zheng Guan irregardless of good or bad to the chart should not be clashed within chart, LC or AP and having single combination with Zheng Guan in the chart is acceptable but not many for female chart.

    -----
    relic
    What is LC and AP?

    LC is Luck Pillar or Da Yun 大運

    AP is Annual Pillar or Sui Yun 歲運 or Liu Nian 流年

    Let us discuss this.
    Quote from: learnbazi on March 14, 2008, 07:59:23 AM
    官现月柱且喜官, 受父母痛爱, 一生少劳苦, 为人正直尽则, 重信讲义, 也主兄弟姐妹有功名.
    If Zhen Guan in Month Pillar and favourable, receive love and care from parents, lack hardship in one's life, Character is honest, siblings have scholarly honor of official rank too.

    Looking at month pillar, Stem and Branch. Month pillar represents parents and siblings also a person at young adult age. Having Zheng Guan also denotes one's conduct is generous and intelligent. Born to be wealthy and will have wide experiences. Able to handle matters wisely.

    First the statement is looking at favorable Guan (Xi Guan喜官). When Guan at month branch and favorable, also known as yue ling yong shen 月令用神 ( any yong shen at month branch is fortunate to the chart, parents are wealthy ect), DM is obviously prosperous (旺 wang) or supported by resource element (yin 印). The requirement is that the yun 運 must also support this formation, that is must not enter shang guan yun (傷官運) ect.

    However this does not say much about parents relationships. Month pillar comes with Stem and Branch. Earthly Branch has more influence on the chart and will also affect the Qi of Stem that sit on it.
    When month branch is Guan and month stem is Shang Guan, is known as stem restraining branch (干克支 gan ke zhi), this is not a good relationship.
    (Suppose month stem is Guan and month branch is shang guan then is worst in terms of relationship)
    When month branch is Guan and stem is Jie Cai, is known as branch restraining stem (支克干 zhi ke gan), also not a good relationship.
    Both stem and branch must be mutually supporting (相生 xiang sheng), zheng yin/ zheng guan or zheng cai/ zheng guan. This only indicate the relationship between stem and branch and hence the parents relationship not necessary favorable to the DM or the chart.

    For relationship between DM and parents beside looking at month pillar as favorable and useful (喜用 xi yong) to DM also need to analyze yin印 and cai財 within the chart.

    -----
    relic

    Hi Learnbazi,
    Quote from: learnbazi on March 18, 2008, 07:51:47 AM
    what is the different between what you have stated and the 60 Jia-Zi permutation?

    Certainly will help to know 60 Jia Zi. However should take note that most of the time 6Jia is referring to Qi of HS on EB. ( # 六十甲子旺強衰弱). That is why most use it to predict general annual luck. In Bazi chart also need to consider the Qi of EB that is affected by HS. That is looking at both reference points.

    For example, Jia Shen pillar and Geng Yin pillar

    Jia Shen is known as 'di chong tian 地沖天' or branch clashes with stem or zhi ke gan 支克干, the Qi of Jia is weaken by the Qi of Geng in Shen.

    Geng Yin is known as 'tian ke di 天克地' or stem restraining branch or gan ke zhi 干克支, the Qi of Geng is weaken due to the Qi of Jia in Yin.

    So when looking at metal Qi, Jia Shen is stronger than Geng Yin. When looking at wood Qi, Geng Yin is stronger then Jia Shen.

    When applying this to analyzing chart will give an idea of whether the stem or branch is being restrained or supported etc.
    Quote from: learnbazi on March 18, 2008, 07:51:47 AM
    Also, does the permutation can be applied to other pillar as well ? e.g. hour pillar

    Yes. For example hour pillar represent children pillar, self/career, lower body parts, later life etc. Looking at how the stem and branch interaction will give an idea how the conditions in this pillar.
    For example,

    食神   日主   x    x
    梟神    x      x    x

    having Shi Shen 食神 sitting on Xiao Shen 梟神 in this pillar usually denotes 'ke zi 克子' for male or difficult to conceive for female or relationship among childrens are not good or hardship at later life especially when Shi Shen is Yong Shen but even then the effect will still be felt. Again have to look at the whole chart for sign related to children etc.

    Also when looking at pillar, look at the relationship in relation to DM. For example is the stem mutually grow, restrain etc. Stem denotes review situation for emotion, conflict etc. or on the surface like hand, eye, nose etc, branch denotes hidden situation, emotion, conflict etc. or liver, heart etc. Again not necessary require to look at strength of DM for any signal.

    Sounds like Blindman theory but not so. Blindman is talking about Guest and Host ( 賓主 bin zhu) similar to the concept of 我非我 wo fei wo. However for wo fei wo the approach will take into consideration Yong Shen Wang Shuai 用神旺衰.

    -----
    relic

    Hi Katherine,
    Quote from: katherine227 on March 19, 2008, 08:13:45 AM
    "日座正财, 得妻内助致富.
    DM sits on Direct Wealth, wife help to become rich."

    Does this only apply to a man's chart? How about if a female DM is sitting on 正财?

    Yes, certainly. That is why always read the statement as if only apply to certain chart only.

    x  DM   x   x
    x  正財  x   x

    When DM sitting on Cai, also known as tian ke zhi, the requirements are DM must be wang 旺 and cai is Yong Shen for the chart to be prosper 富貴. Day branch represent spouse palace as well as self. Zheng Cai also represents wife. If this formation is favorable to the chart, that is DM is strong then cai is within reached. As this palace also represents spouse, wife comes from wealthy family. Since it is Yong Shen, wife fortune will in turn assist DM and loving relationship.

    What if it is not Yong Shen? Spouse may still be from wealthy family but not in favorable of DM or unable to assist. As this also relate to self pillar, health will be an issue (cai duo sheng ruo 財多生弱) and due to spouse or self etc.

    So what about female chart? The statement does not refer to female but under description on woman's destiny
    (# nu ming 女命) sitting on Zheng Cai if favorable, receives most loving and caring from husband.

    Remember even when all conditions are met, still need to look for chong ke he 沖克合 with adjacent pillars particularly by Jie Cai, tao hua 桃花 etc. also must not sit on void (空亡 kong wang).

    There are certain pillars that will particularly benefit from this condition under favorable formations, such as Gui Si day pillar.

    -----
    relic



    Hi Learnbazi,
    Quote from: learnbazi on March 17, 2008, 02:30:40 AM
    The part that I am confuse about is "bing yao 病藥". I don't know what it is. I understand that you need to analyse the bazi by doing permutation between gods but what is "bing yao 病藥" ? Perhaps, you care to explain further?

    Also, does this relates to Zi Ping Factor ?

    bing 病 refers to ailment/sickness or disease, that is the ji shen 忌神

    yao 藥 refers to medicine or remedy/cure, that is the xi yong shen 喜用神

    A strong DM chart sees resouce 印 Yin and companion Bi Jie 比劫 as bing. Shi Shang Cai Guan 食傷財官 as yao.

    There are basically few types of yao,

    ke bing 克病
    bing ke 病克
    bing xie 病洩
    bing sheng 病生

    example

    When DM weak and bing at Cai, if using Bi Jie as yao is known as ke bing, or restraining the ailment. If using Yin as yao is known as bing ke, or being restrain by disease.

    If DM is weak and bing at Guan, using yin as yao is known as bing sheng, divulge the qi of disease and support DM.

    If DM is strong and bing at Bi Jie, using Shi Shang as yao is known as bing xie, divulge the qi of disease.

    So when DM is strong and bing at Yin, to use Cai as ke bing which is direct attacking the ailment or Shi Shang as bing ke which in turn being restrain to reduce the qi of ailment. This is not a good remedy also known as second choice yong shen. In fact by understand bing yao, will help in assessing the quality/characteristic and effective of xi yong shen.

    Quote from: learnbazi on March 17, 2008, 02:30:40 AM
    Also, does this relates to Zi Ping Factor ?

    Certainly. Try also Di Tian Sui 滴天髓.

    -----
    relic
     Good stuff. Haven't up to that level yet, still learning Zi Ping. BTW, do you have softcopy of Di Tian Sui? If got time, will try to translate...

    Try the following site:

    http://www.sizu12.com/mlgj/dts/yxy/Dts/dts.htm [nofollow]

    Regards,
    relic

    Hi Robert,
    Quote from: devadog on March 20, 2008, 05:49:31 AM
    Can someone say a bit more about this term, "complicated".

    The 1st statement,

    日支座杀, 官杀混杂, 夫妻易反目, 难得圆满相处

    x      DM    x       x
    x      Sha   Guan  x

    x       DM    x      x
    Guan  Sha   x      x

    above only suggested chart formation. The statement refers to a female chart. When DM sitting on Sha and there is Guan present side by side or in the chart, this denotes complicated relationship between Guan Sha. Certainly affect spouse palace, especially when Guan Sha is xiong 官殺為凶.

    * not to use this statement in the case of tiao hou 調候, adjusting temperate in the chart.

    The 2nd statement,

    时柱有偏官, 和子女缘分较薄. 不过有食制杀, 子女多半会在文学界, 艺术界, 或军正界发挥所学而获得名望.

    Shi Shen     DM     x       x
    Sha           Sha     x       x

    When hour pillar having Shi Shen and Qi Sha, to read Qi Sha as Pian Guan. Hour pillar represents children's pillar, when stem clashes with branch or other way round, denotes bad relationships among children or with children. However since Sha is being restrained by Shi Shen, will see children excel academically ..........

    The 2nd statement does not refer to male or female in particular.

    -----
    relic

    Hi Robert,
    Quote from: devadog on March 21, 2008, 11:44:20 AM
    This recognition of polarity (male's mother being zheng yin - but pian yin fmother or women) makes more sense.

    Yes, certainly when looking at gender specification.
    Quote from: devadog on March 21, 2008, 11:44:20 AM
    I have seen elsewhere that zheng yin is mother for both male and female. (Peter Leung's notes, for example)

    Not sure about that, never read PL notes before.

    Lets see if this will help.
    Quote from: learnbazi on March 14, 2008, 08:01:00 AM
    (3) 正印

    如果正印过强, 则其人可能和子女无缘.
    If Zheng Yin too strong, don?t have destiny (yuan) with children.

    This statement on Zheng Yin refers to Zi Nu 子女 or children. That is to say if Zheng Yin is overly strong will affect the relationships with both male and female children. This does not say anything about male/female DM.

    In general Yin refers to parent(s) or motherly figure. The children here refers to Shi Shang. In liu shen xiang ke 六神相克, Yin restrains Shi Shang, can be interpreted as poor relationships. Yin looks at Bi Jie as children, as Bi Jie looks at Shi Shang as children. In general without taking into account of male and female, to consider Yin (Zheng/Pian) affecting Bi Jie or DM, male or female when interpreting chart.

    (Also for male chart, Guan Sha denotes gender of children yet Shi Shang denotes presence of children. A male chart having Yin restraining Shi Shang also related to children relationships.)

    -----
    relic

    Hi,
    Quote from: devadog on March 20, 2008, 05:49:31 AM
    日支座杀, 官杀混杂, 夫妻易反目, 难得圆满相处.
    Day pillar sitting on Sha and Officer Sha is complicated, there will be quarrel between husband and wife, very difficult to leave happily ever after.

    Can someone say a bit more about this term, "complicated".
    How do we understand that in a chart?

    Quote from: relic on March 20, 2008, 06:25:30 AM
    日支座杀, 官杀混杂, 夫妻易反目, 难得圆满相处

    a)           
    x      DM    x       x
    x      Sha   Guan  x

    b)
    x       DM    x      x
    Guan  Sha   x      x

    above only suggested chart formation. The statement refers to a female chart. When DM sitting on Sha and there is Guan present side by side or in the chart, this denotes complicated relationship between Guan Sha. Certainly affect spouse palace, especially when Guan Sha is xiong 官殺為凶.

    When looking at a chart, see if there is any counterbalancing factor.

    Example, consider chart (a) formation,

    x     DM     x        x
    x     Sha    Guan   x

    DM weak, to look at Guan Sha 官殺 as Sha 煞 or xiong 凶.

    If there is a factor that dissolved the Sha that DM sitting on and turning xiong into ji 吉, DM may just prosper with it.

    consider following,

    x                  DM     x        x
    Shi Shen      Sha    Guan   x
    (combination,  he合)             

    example,

    x        Jia wood      x        x
    Si       Shen           You    x

    when Si on hour branch and combine with Shen, water will in turn support Jia wood. Also water will dissolve You metal to support wood. This is known as sha yin fan sheng 煞印反生. A weak DM in the original chart will be strengthen by this formation and be able to handle Guan.

    Instead of looking at inauspicious chart is actually looking at auspicious one.

    -----
    relic


    Dear All
    For anyone, who wish to learn Ba Zi with sincere heart and willing to share, you can entering this site ( but in Chinese Language ) :
     newbielink:http://www.chinesezhouyi.com/bazi/rumen.htm [nonactive]
    The translation just in Bahasa Indonesia, in English ( i don't know ) maybe quah or relic have it.
    It is enlighten and structural.

    Buying Guan Leong's 10 Gods book may be better for you.   

    http://www.fivearts.net/index.php/topic,1509.0.html




    Officer/Sha is complicated means the chart has Zhen Guan and Pian Guan together. Punishment is:

    Yin - Si - Shen
    Chou - Wei - Xu
    Zi - Mao
    Chen - Chen
    Wu - Wu
    Hai - Hai
    You - You

    In fact, both Zhen Guan and Pian Guan cannot be in the chart together. If there is then there will be complication.

    Thanks





    Droped page eight [this is my note]


    Sorry for the late reply...busy with work. I am still doing research on this area and hope that other masters can help. This is what I think it is:

    - You use DM vs each EB to find the stage of your DM in for each pillar.
    - You can also analyse pillar by pillar. For example, you analyse Month Pillar, HS vs EB and your HS happen to be Zheng Yin and at Coming-of-age, so, you will have virtuous Mother.

    Note: don't forget, Month Pillar also your parent's pillar - so need to take that into consideration.

    Other masters, please let me know if this is wrong.

    Thanks

    Post Merge: February 24, 2009, 07:09:37 AM

    Quote from: PhantomAdam on February 22, 2009, 02:52:35 AM
    Thank You for the post and translation, very helpful.

    What is an "Eating God chart type", Is that when the Eating God is the strongest element in the chart?

    thank you everyone for your wisdom.

    Primary Qi of HHS in Month EB is EB => Eating God chart type. Suggest that you invest on Master Guan first book.

    Thanks
    Fine young canibal – funny how love is444444444444444
    « Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 07:09:37 AM by learnbazi »

    It is not only about the effect of EB interactions on the HHS, but more importantly on the structural integrity of the chart itself.
    http://www.fivearts.net/index.php/topic,3548.msg39212.html#msg39212


    For the Yuan Hai Zi Peng, will you translate and post it into this forum?

    Will you translate 子平病源生死訣 as well?

    How to use connect the 12 phases with the HS See here: http://www.fivearts.net/index.php?topic=77.0

    Reply to see

    Offline sLuToSUN

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  • Re: Rob wealth and Self Element Discusion - 5Arts.net
    « Reply #2 on: December 09, 2019, 07:43:54 PM »
    Quote
    Quote from: devadog on March 20, 2008, 05:49:31 AM
    日支座杀, 官杀混杂, 夫妻易反目, 难得圆满相处.
    Day pillar sitting on Sha and Officer Sha is complicated, there will be quarrel between husband and wife, very difficult to leave happily ever after.

    Can someone say a bit more about this term, "complicated".
    How do we understand that in a chart?

    Quote from: relic on March 20, 2008, 06:25:30 AM
    日支座杀, 官杀混杂, 夫妻易反目, 难得圆满相处

    a)           
    x      DM    x       x
    x      Sha   Guan  x

    b)
    x       DM    x      x
    Guan  Sha   x      x

    above only suggested chart formation. The statement refers to a female chart. When DM sitting on Sha and there is Guan present side by side or in the chart, this denotes complicated relationship between Guan Sha. Certainly affect spouse palace, especially when Guan Sha is xiong 官殺為凶.

    When looking at a chart, see if there is any counterbalancing factor.

    Example, consider chart (a) formation,

    x     DM     x        x
    x     Sha    Guan   x

    DM weak, to look at Guan Sha 官殺 as Sha 煞 or xiong 凶.

    If there is a factor that dissolved the Sha that DM sitting on and turning xiong into ji 吉, DM may just prosper with it.

    consider following,

    x                  DM     x        x
    Shi Shen      Sha    Guan   x
    (combination,  he合)             

    example,

    x        Jia wood      x        x
    Si       Shen           You    x

    when Si on hour branch and combine with Shen, water will in turn support Jia wood. Also water will dissolve You metal to support wood. This is known as sha yin fan sheng 煞印反生. A weak DM in the original chart will be strengthen by this formation and be able to handle Guan.

    Instead of looking at inauspicious chart is actually looking at auspicious one.







    Reply to see
    « Last Edit: December 09, 2019, 07:52:18 PM by sLuToSUN »

    Online socrates

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    Re: Rob wealth and Self Element Discusion - 5Arts.net
    « Reply #3 on: December 10, 2019, 09:33:34 PM »
    [Hidden post: You need 20 posts to see it. You currently have 601. <font color="black">Join the paid subscription and see this hidden post now.</font>]

    Sorry I don't have the original 5Arts.net URL or post date. I think originally posted by LearnBazi (Calvin Yap). Enjoy and comment.

    ----------------------------------
    Have you got the link for all gods? That would come in handy

    Text quote from  http://a3618.blogbus.com/logs/54174415.html [nofollow]
    八字論命-比肩.劫財,上海五行命理

    Rob wealth and Self Element

    Translation start

    偏印劫刃,出祖離家,外象謙合尚義,內心狠毒無知,有刻薄之意,無慈慧之心。(此言偏印、劫財、羊刃露出,又是忌神,無制無合。)
    When the indirect resource, and rob wealth, and the Yang Ren protrude at the heaven stem, and it act as a inauspicious god, and when these god does not being countered or combined, it denote from outward appearance it looks modest and loyal, but the inner self is vicious and ignorant, mean, and is not compassionate.

    比劫之人氣量小,性傲不馴,有錯不悟。(此言比劫通根透幹,又為日主忌神之人。)
    劫財敗財,好高鶩遠。
    When the Rob Wealth is protrude and well rooted, and it act as the inauspicious god to self, one attribute is proud and arrogant, and does not comprehend one own fault. The Rob wealth will “defeat” the wealth, and these people always overestimating their own strength.

    劫財羊刃兩頭居,外面光滑內面虛。(此言劫財羊刃分別位於年時兩幹,又為忌神。)
    When the rob wealth and the “yang Ren” reside at both end of pillar, outward it looks well groomed, but inwards it diffident and timid. It means the rob wealth and the yang ren is residing at the year stem and the hour stem, and acting as the inauspicious god.

    亡神比劫往來,佛口蛇心。(此言比劫為忌神,比劫又坐亡神,為人口蜜腹劍。)
    When the Rob Wealth is the inauspicious god, and it is sitting on top of a “wang shen”, is malicious and duplicitous.

    身旺,比肩強,應避免營商或從事投機冒險行業,最好是從公職或經營穩定性生意。
    When the self is strong, and the “bi jian” is strong, should avoid undertake or involve in risky speculated investment industries. It’s best to engage in the official position, or engage in a stable business.
       
    劫財入用,骨骼配合至佳。比肩迭迭,一生少病。(此言比肩多,身旺。
    日主弱,用神為正印或比肩幫扶者,主得雙親或兄妹之寵愛,並倍得親蔭或遺產。
    When the self is weak, and the useful god is direct resource, or with the aid of “bi jian”, denote self will have the support and care from both parent and sibling. And might have some share in inheritance as well.

    日值財,時為劫,父興子敗。(此言日支為財,時支為比劫奪財,主自身富貴榮顯,但家業傳到子息手中便開始敗落。)
    When the day branch reside the “direct wealth”, and when the hour branch reside the “rob wealth” element, it denote oneself once is rich and honor, but the family property will start to decline once inherit to later generation.

    比劫重迭,父母壽元難延。(此言比劫多,劫奪財星,一般是父親壽短的標誌。)
    When the “rob wealth” is abundant in the chart, it will seize the wealth star, most of the time it denote the sign of father who have short longevity.

    日主弱,比肩坐日支,主妻子能幹,多得幫助。財旺身弱,有比劫扛財幫身,主妻賢。
    When the self is weak, and the “self” element is sitting at the day branch, it denote self’s wife is capable, and manage to assist self. When the wealth is abundant and the self is weak, but there occur the rob wealth to help and sustain the wealth, denote the person wife is virtuous.
     
    男命若見比肩劫財多,必克妻再娶。比肩劫財,破財傷妻。比劫較多,晚婚有利。羊刃劫財迭迭,花燭重輝之兆。
    For a Man’s life, when there occur abundant of ‘self” element and “rob wealth” element, certainly it will counter the wife and remarried. “self” and “rob wealth” can destruct the wealth and hurt the “wife star”. People with abundant of “rob wealth” in the chart, is advantages to married late.

    梟劫重重,易晚婚。(劫財奪妻星,偏印奪妻星原神傷食,故雲。)
    When the indirect resource and rob wealth is abundant, will married late. (as the rob wealth will rob the wife star, and the indirect resource will hurt the eating god which is the source that birth the wealth)

    比劫如林,兄弟姐妹成群。
    When the “rob wealth” is abundant, will have a lot sibling.

    比劫臨貴人,比劫坐祿和將星為喜,兄弟姐妹富貴。
    “Rob wealth” can attract noble people. When “rob wealth” sitting in the state of “lu” and act as the “jiang xing” and is favorable to self, denote sibling will be prosper and noble.

    殺旺食輕,印弱逢財,得比肩敵殺,主得手足助力。

    When the “7 killing” is prosperous, and the eating god is “weak”, when the “direct resource” is weak, an there occur the wealth, but with the present of “self element” to overcome the “7 killings”, this denote self will have the help of henchman.

    translation end
    ------------------------------------------------------
    I will try and translate the rest bit by bit

    some of the text were quoted from Yuan hai Zi Ping, which is under those poetic chapter.

    It is good that these text comes with the decipher from this author


    « Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 05:40:45 AM by Shi Xiang »


    Rob wealth and Self Element

    日主旺而比劫多,主手足敗家不和。(此言日主強,比劫多,劫奪財星。)
    When the self is prosperous, and there occur abundant of “Bi jian and Bi jie”, denote one’s henchman/ friends will result failure of family business, and does not get along well with them. (It says when the self is strong, and with abundant of Bi Jie, Jie will size the wealth star).
     
    官輕傷重,比劫生傷,主遭手足之累。官弱食傷強,又遇比劫,為兄弟所累。
    When the direct officer is “light” (weak) but the hurting officer is heavy (strong), Bi Jie will give birth to hurting officer, denote self will be weary by subordinate. When Direct Officer is weak, but eating god is strong, will be weary by “brother” (sibling).

    財弱比劫旺,兄弟反目。比劫重重無制伏,暗損門風,兄弟無情。
    When the wealth is weak but the bi jie is prosperous, self will quarrel with sibling. When the Bi Jie is abundant and strong and does not being counter and subdue, 暗損門風, sibling is ruthless and merciless

    比劫羊刃者,兄弟不睦,常犯小人口舌。(此言比劫羊刃為忌神。)
    Chart with Bi Jie and yang Ren, does not get along well with sibling, often found guilty about bad people bickering. (When the Bi Jie and Yang Ren is the inauspicious god)

    日主弱,四柱無比劫印綬,如幼行比劫運,幼年難免孤苦,由堂兄姐或朋友養大成人。
    When the self is weak, and within the four pillar there does not have Bi Jie and Resource, when the self of such formation undergoes “Bi Jie” luck during younger days, will be hard to avoid the lonely life, will be raised or bought up by sibling and with the help of friends ( does not favor by the parents)

    日主弱,四柱無印綬,只依賴比劫幫身,主不得雙親之力而依*手足之福以成家立業。
    When the self is weak, but within the four pillar there does not have Resource, and only relied on “Bi Jie” to assist self to balance the chart. Such a formation of chart will not gain the assistance from both parents, instead will relied on “subordinate” to start a career, and family. (The parent here can meat superior as well).

    劫財羊刃,傷妻破財。(此言身旺,劫財羊刃為忌。)
    “Jie, friend element” Yang Ren, will hurt the wife and destroy the wealth. This manifest when the Jie Cai and Yang Ren is inauspicious.

    劫財羊刃有官殺,台閣之臣。(身不要太旺或太弱。)
    When the occurrence of Jie Cai and Yang Ren come with Guan(Direct Officer) and Sha (7 killings), will gain high authority and position in government sector (I think). (This manifest when the self is not too strong or not too weak)

    比肩逢祿,兄弟名高。(此言比肩坐自身之祿。)
    When Bi Jian sitting on top of “Lu”, or reside in the branch that resulted Lu, denote sibling is honor and high.

    身旺財弱,運行比劫,疾病破財。身弱財多,逢比劫運發財。
    When the self is strong and the wealth is weak, and undergoes the luck of Bi Jie, will befell sickness and lost of wealth. When the self is weak and the wealth is abundant, when undergoes the luck of Bi Jie, will be prosper- (remark: It is not the case when the bi jie from luck is transform to other element).

    命旺,遇比劫大運流年,克父克妻,不利婚姻。

    When the self is prosperous, meeting the luck of Bi Jie in the 10 years luck pillar, denote counter the wife and father, is not favor for marriage.

    生地相逢,壯年不祿。(此言劫印重重,又行日主長生之地,主死。)
    When the Jie and the Direct Resource is abundant and prosperous, and one’s self is undergoing the luck of Chang Sheng to self, denote death.

    遇比用財纏萬貫,比得滋扶。(此言財多身弱,以比劫奪財為用,比劫逢生得助者,主富。)
    When the wealth is too many and the self is weak, Bi Jie is used to seized the wealth. If the Bi Jie is being birth, will prosper (remark: refer to luck).

    夫妻隨娶隨傷,蓋為比肩伏馬。(此言原局財坐比劫之上,行克制比劫的運程可以有婚姻,但再行比劫運程則有生離死別之憂。)
    Within the chart, when the wealth is sitting on top of Bi Jie, when undergoing the luck that can counter the “Bi Jie”, will have marriage. But if it undergoes the luck of Bi Jie, will have the sorrow of separated by the life and death.

    陽剛陰柔,兄強弟弱。陰盛陽衰,弟必強兄。
    -

    比肩要逢官殺制。(此言比肩旺為病。)
    When the Bi Jian act as sickness (too strong), it is prefer to have direct officer of 7 killings to subdue/ counter it.

    日幹無氣,遇劫為強。(此言日主弱,要用比劫扶身。)
    When the self is weak, it is needed for a bi jie to assist self


    « Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 08:15:12 AM by Shi Xiang »


    生地相逢,壯年不祿。(此言劫印重重,又行日主長生之地,主死。)
    When the Jie and the Direct Resource is abundant and prosperous, and one’s self is undergoing the luck of Chang Sheng to self, denote death.


    was just wondering what (undergoing the luck of Chang Sheng to Self) means?

    hi ,my understanding towards the phrase is as following

    for example Ren is chang Shen at Shen.

            DM                      LP
    Ren  Ren   Xin   Ding   Geng
    Wu  Shen  You  Hai     Shen

    undergoes the luck of Shen might dead

    so when the day pillar meets itself it can denote death? does the stem play a role or only the branch?



    http://www.fivearts.net/index.php/topic,1312.15.html

    Hi Learnbazi,

    Thanks. Great translation~O0.

    Would You like to start the discussion?

    Ten Gods (十神 shi shen) also known as Six Gods (六神 liu shen). Ten Gods can be grouped into two categories 吉凶神, ji xiong shen, depending on their characteristics.

    ji shen 吉神 are Zheng Guan, Zheng Yin, Shi Shen and Zheng/Pian Cai

    xiong shen 凶神 are Xiao Shen梟神(or Pian Yin), Shang Guan, Jie Cai and Qi Sha

    Bi Jian is considered as neutral.

    Under the concept of Six Gods, the destructive relationships are,

    Shang Guan       X      Zheng Guan

    Shi Shen           X        Qi Sha

    Zheng Cai           X        Zheng Yin

    Pian Cai            X        Pian Yin

    Zheng Guan        X        Jie Cai

    Qi Sha              X        Bi Jian

    Zheng Yin           X        Shang Guan

    Pian Yin            X        Shi Shen

    Bi Jian              X         Pian Cai

    Jie Cai              X         Zheng Cai

    (the relationships in red are considered as more critical).

    -----
    relic

    « Last Edit: March 15, 2008, 12:45:27 AM by relic »
    For the God that is too strong, the other god is used to control it. (e.g. Shi Shen control Qi Sha). This doesn't take into consideration whether DM is strong or not. Am I right?

    This is far too general. Yes and No.

    Suppose DM is far too weak, likely to end up as cong ge 從格, then Shi Shen can be Ji Shen 忌神 if the chart follow Guan Sha.

    Suppose DM is wood yet born in winter (both water and metal in the chart) we call this han mu xiang yang 寒木向陽, then to apply the concept of tiao hou 調候, where fire Shi Shen is used to control metal Guan Sha. Yes will not take into consideration the strength of DM.

    The concept of liu shen xiang sheng 六神相生 and liu shen xiang ke 六神相克 is important in analyzing bing yao 病藥.

    ------
    relic

    Basically are only production and restraining relationship between ten gods.

    Six Gods Mutually Growth (六神相生 Liu Shen Xiang Sheng).

    All Yin or all Yang Six Gods and Opposite polarity to DM.

    Zheng Yin produces Jie Cai
    Jie Cai produces Shang Guan
    Shang Guan produces Zheng Cai
    Zheng Cai produces Zheng Guan
    Zheng Guan produces Zheng Yin

    All Yin or all Yang Six Gods and Same polarity as DM.

    Pian Yin produces Bi Jian
    Bi Jian produces Shi Shen
    Shi Shen produces Pian Cai
    Pian Cai produces Qi Sha
    Qi Sha produces Pian Yin

    Six Gods Mutually Destruct (六神相克 Liu Shen Xiang Ke).

    All Yin or all Yang Six Gods and Opposite polarity to DM.

    Zheng Yin restrains Shang Guan
    Shang Guan restrains Zheng Guan
    Zheng Guan restrains Jie Cai
    Jie Cai restrains Zheng Cai
    Zheng Cai restrains Zheng Yin

    All Yin or all Yang Six Gods and Same polarity as DM.

    Pian Yin restrains Shi Shen
    Shi Shen restrains Qi Sha
    Qi Sha restrains Bi Jian
    Bi Jian restrains Pian Cai
    Pian Cai restrains Pian Yin

    ------
    relic

    "analyzing bing yao 病藥." ?

    Analyze the chart in terms of weak and strong 旺衰 wang shuai to determine bing yao 病藥. This is how we derived Xi Yong Shen 喜用神.

    Again should be noted that even without looking at wang shuai the influence of ten gods within a single pillar, adjacent pillars, within the chart or LC AP is real, favorable or unfavorable. For example Zheng Guan irregardless of good or bad to the chart should not be clashed within chart, LC or AP and having single combination with Zheng Guan in the chart is acceptable but not many for female chart.

    -----
    relic
    What is LC and AP?

    LC is Luck Pillar or Da Yun 大運

    AP is Annual Pillar or Sui Yun 歲運 or Liu Nian 流年

    Let us discuss this.
    Quote from: learnbazi on March 14, 2008, 07:59:23 AM
    官现月柱且喜官, 受父母痛爱, 一生少劳苦, 为人正直尽则, 重信讲义, 也主兄弟姐妹有功名.
    If Zhen Guan in Month Pillar and favourable, receive love and care from parents, lack hardship in one's life, Character is honest, siblings have scholarly honor of official rank too.

    Looking at month pillar, Stem and Branch. Month pillar represents parents and siblings also a person at young adult age. Having Zheng Guan also denotes one's conduct is generous and intelligent. Born to be wealthy and will have wide experiences. Able to handle matters wisely.

    First the statement is looking at favorable Guan (Xi Guan喜官). When Guan at month branch and favorable, also known as yue ling yong shen 月令用神 ( any yong shen at month branch is fortunate to the chart, parents are wealthy ect), DM is obviously prosperous (旺 wang) or supported by resource element (yin 印). The requirement is that the yun 運 must also support this formation, that is must not enter shang guan yun (傷官運) ect.

    However this does not say much about parents relationships. Month pillar comes with Stem and Branch. Earthly Branch has more influence on the chart and will also affect the Qi of Stem that sit on it.
    When month branch is Guan and month stem is Shang Guan, is known as stem restraining branch (干克支 gan ke zhi), this is not a good relationship.
    (Suppose month stem is Guan and month branch is shang guan then is worst in terms of relationship)
    When month branch is Guan and stem is Jie Cai, is known as branch restraining stem (支克干 zhi ke gan), also not a good relationship.
    Both stem and branch must be mutually supporting (相生 xiang sheng), zheng yin/ zheng guan or zheng cai/ zheng guan. This only indicate the relationship between stem and branch and hence the parents relationship not necessary favorable to the DM or the chart.

    For relationship between DM and parents beside looking at month pillar as favorable and useful (喜用 xi yong) to DM also need to analyze yin印 and cai財 within the chart.

    -----
    relic

    Hi Learnbazi,
    Quote from: learnbazi on March 18, 2008, 07:51:47 AM
    what is the different between what you have stated and the 60 Jia-Zi permutation?

    Certainly will help to know 60 Jia Zi. However should take note that most of the time 6Jia is referring to Qi of HS on EB. ( # 六十甲子旺強衰弱). That is why most use it to predict general annual luck. In Bazi chart also need to consider the Qi of EB that is affected by HS. That is looking at both reference points.

    For example, Jia Shen pillar and Geng Yin pillar

    Jia Shen is known as 'di chong tian 地沖天' or branch clashes with stem or zhi ke gan 支克干, the Qi of Jia is weaken by the Qi of Geng in Shen.

    Geng Yin is known as 'tian ke di 天克地' or stem restraining branch or gan ke zhi 干克支, the Qi of Geng is weaken due to the Qi of Jia in Yin.

    So when looking at metal Qi, Jia Shen is stronger than Geng Yin. When looking at wood Qi, Geng Yin is stronger then Jia Shen.

    When applying this to analyzing chart will give an idea of whether the stem or branch is being restrained or supported etc.
    Quote from: learnbazi on March 18, 2008, 07:51:47 AM
    Also, does the permutation can be applied to other pillar as well ? e.g. hour pillar

    Yes. For example hour pillar represent children pillar, self/career, lower body parts, later life etc. Looking at how the stem and branch interaction will give an idea how the conditions in this pillar.
    For example,

    食神   日主   x    x
    梟神    x      x    x

    having Shi Shen 食神 sitting on Xiao Shen 梟神 in this pillar usually denotes 'ke zi 克子' for male or difficult to conceive for female or relationship among childrens are not good or hardship at later life especially when Shi Shen is Yong Shen but even then the effect will still be felt. Again have to look at the whole chart for sign related to children etc.

    Also when looking at pillar, look at the relationship in relation to DM. For example is the stem mutually grow, restrain etc. Stem denotes review situation for emotion, conflict etc. or on the surface like hand, eye, nose etc, branch denotes hidden situation, emotion, conflict etc. or liver, heart etc. Again not necessary require to look at strength of DM for any signal.

    Sounds like Blindman theory but not so. Blindman is talking about Guest and Host ( 賓主 bin zhu) similar to the concept of 我非我 wo fei wo. However for wo fei wo the approach will take into consideration Yong Shen Wang Shuai 用神旺衰.

    -----
    relic

    Hi Katherine,
    Quote from: katherine227 on March 19, 2008, 08:13:45 AM
    "日座正财, 得妻内助致富.
    DM sits on Direct Wealth, wife help to become rich."

    Does this only apply to a man's chart? How about if a female DM is sitting on 正财?

    Yes, certainly. That is why always read the statement as if only apply to certain chart only.

    x  DM   x   x
    x  正財  x   x

    When DM sitting on Cai, also known as tian ke zhi, the requirements are DM must be wang 旺 and cai is Yong Shen for the chart to be prosper 富貴. Day branch represent spouse palace as well as self. Zheng Cai also represents wife. If this formation is favorable to the chart, that is DM is strong then cai is within reached. As this palace also represents spouse, wife comes from wealthy family. Since it is Yong Shen, wife fortune will in turn assist DM and loving relationship.

    What if it is not Yong Shen? Spouse may still be from wealthy family but not in favorable of DM or unable to assist. As this also relate to self pillar, health will be an issue (cai duo sheng ruo 財多生弱) and due to spouse or self etc.

    So what about female chart? The statement does not refer to female but under description on woman's destiny
    (# nu ming 女命) sitting on Zheng Cai if favorable, receives most loving and caring from husband.

    Remember even when all conditions are met, still need to look for chong ke he 沖克合 with adjacent pillars particularly by Jie Cai, tao hua 桃花 etc. also must not sit on void (空亡 kong wang).

    There are certain pillars that will particularly benefit from this condition under favorable formations, such as Gui Si day pillar.

    -----
    relic



    Hi Learnbazi,
    Quote from: learnbazi on March 17, 2008, 02:30:40 AM
    The part that I am confuse about is "bing yao 病藥". I don't know what it is. I understand that you need to analyse the bazi by doing permutation between gods but what is "bing yao 病藥" ? Perhaps, you care to explain further?

    Also, does this relates to Zi Ping Factor ?

    bing 病 refers to ailment/sickness or disease, that is the ji shen 忌神

    yao 藥 refers to medicine or remedy/cure, that is the xi yong shen 喜用神

    A strong DM chart sees resouce 印 Yin and companion Bi Jie 比劫 as bing. Shi Shang Cai Guan 食傷財官 as yao.

    There are basically few types of yao,

    ke bing 克病
    bing ke 病克
    bing xie 病洩
    bing sheng 病生

    example

    When DM weak and bing at Cai, if using Bi Jie as yao is known as ke bing, or restraining the ailment. If using Yin as yao is known as bing ke, or being restrain by disease.

    If DM is weak and bing at Guan, using yin as yao is known as bing sheng, divulge the qi of disease and support DM.

    If DM is strong and bing at Bi Jie, using Shi Shang as yao is known as bing xie, divulge the qi of disease.

    So when DM is strong and bing at Yin, to use Cai as ke bing which is direct attacking the ailment or Shi Shang as bing ke which in turn being restrain to reduce the qi of ailment. This is not a good remedy also known as second choice yong shen. In fact by understand bing yao, will help in assessing the quality/characteristic and effective of xi yong shen.

    Quote from: learnbazi on March 17, 2008, 02:30:40 AM
    Also, does this relates to Zi Ping Factor ?

    Certainly. Try also Di Tian Sui 滴天髓.

    -----
    relic
     Good stuff. Haven't up to that level yet, still learning Zi Ping. BTW, do you have softcopy of Di Tian Sui? If got time, will try to translate...

    Try the following site:

    http://www.sizu12.com/mlgj/dts/yxy/Dts/dts.htm [nofollow]

    Regards,
    relic

    Hi Robert,
    Quote from: devadog on March 20, 2008, 05:49:31 AM
    Can someone say a bit more about this term, "complicated".

    The 1st statement,

    日支座杀, 官杀混杂, 夫妻易反目, 难得圆满相处

    x      DM    x       x
    x      Sha   Guan  x

    x       DM    x      x
    Guan  Sha   x      x

    above only suggested chart formation. The statement refers to a female chart. When DM sitting on Sha and there is Guan present side by side or in the chart, this denotes complicated relationship between Guan Sha. Certainly affect spouse palace, especially when Guan Sha is xiong 官殺為凶.

    * not to use this statement in the case of tiao hou 調候, adjusting temperate in the chart.

    The 2nd statement,

    时柱有偏官, 和子女缘分较薄. 不过有食制杀, 子女多半会在文学界, 艺术界, 或军正界发挥所学而获得名望.

    Shi Shen     DM     x       x
    Sha           Sha     x       x

    When hour pillar having Shi Shen and Qi Sha, to read Qi Sha as Pian Guan. Hour pillar represents children's pillar, when stem clashes with branch or other way round, denotes bad relationships among children or with children. However since Sha is being restrained by Shi Shen, will see children excel academically ..........

    The 2nd statement does not refer to male or female in particular.

    -----
    relic

    Hi Robert,
    Quote from: devadog on March 21, 2008, 11:44:20 AM
    This recognition of polarity (male's mother being zheng yin - but pian yin fmother or women) makes more sense.

    Yes, certainly when looking at gender specification.
    Quote from: devadog on March 21, 2008, 11:44:20 AM
    I have seen elsewhere that zheng yin is mother for both male and female. (Peter Leung's notes, for example)

    Not sure about that, never read PL notes before.

    Lets see if this will help.
    Quote from: learnbazi on March 14, 2008, 08:01:00 AM
    (3) 正印

    如果正印过强, 则其人可能和子女无缘.
    If Zheng Yin too strong, don?t have destiny (yuan) with children.

    This statement on Zheng Yin refers to Zi Nu 子女 or children. That is to say if Zheng Yin is overly strong will affect the relationships with both male and female children. This does not say anything about male/female DM.

    In general Yin refers to parent(s) or motherly figure. The children here refers to Shi Shang. In liu shen xiang ke 六神相克, Yin restrains Shi Shang, can be interpreted as poor relationships. Yin looks at Bi Jie as children, as Bi Jie looks at Shi Shang as children. In general without taking into account of male and female, to consider Yin (Zheng/Pian) affecting Bi Jie or DM, male or female when interpreting chart.

    (Also for male chart, Guan Sha denotes gender of children yet Shi Shang denotes presence of children. A male chart having Yin restraining Shi Shang also related to children relationships.)

    -----
    relic

    Hi,
    Quote from: devadog on March 20, 2008, 05:49:31 AM
    日支座杀, 官杀混杂, 夫妻易反目, 难得圆满相处.
    Day pillar sitting on Sha and Officer Sha is complicated, there will be quarrel between husband and wife, very difficult to leave happily ever after.

    Can someone say a bit more about this term, "complicated".
    How do we understand that in a chart?

    Quote from: relic on March 20, 2008, 06:25:30 AM
    日支座杀, 官杀混杂, 夫妻易反目, 难得圆满相处

    a)           
    x      DM    x       x
    x      Sha   Guan  x

    b)
    x       DM    x      x
    Guan  Sha   x      x

    above only suggested chart formation. The statement refers to a female chart. When DM sitting on Sha and there is Guan present side by side or in the chart, this denotes complicated relationship between Guan Sha. Certainly affect spouse palace, especially when Guan Sha is xiong 官殺為凶.

    When looking at a chart, see if there is any counterbalancing factor.

    Example, consider chart (a) formation,

    x     DM     x        x
    x     Sha    Guan   x

    DM weak, to look at Guan Sha 官殺 as Sha 煞 or xiong 凶.

    If there is a factor that dissolved the Sha that DM sitting on and turning xiong into ji 吉, DM may just prosper with it.

    consider following,

    x                  DM     x        x
    Shi Shen      Sha    Guan   x
    (combination,  he合)             

    example,

    x        Jia wood      x        x
    Si       Shen           You    x

    when Si on hour branch and combine with Shen, water will in turn support Jia wood. Also water will dissolve You metal to support wood. This is known as sha yin fan sheng 煞印反生. A weak DM in the original chart will be strengthen by this formation and be able to handle Guan.

    Instead of looking at inauspicious chart is actually looking at auspicious one.

    -----
    relic


    Dear All
    For anyone, who wish to learn Ba Zi with sincere heart and willing to share, you can entering this site ( but in Chinese Language ) :
     newbielink:http://www.chinesezhouyi.com/bazi/rumen.htm [nonactive]
    The translation just in Bahasa Indonesia, in English ( i don't know ) maybe quah or relic have it.
    It is enlighten and structural.

    Buying Guan Leong's 10 Gods book may be better for you.   

    http://www.fivearts.net/index.php/topic,1509.0.html




    Officer/Sha is complicated means the chart has Zhen Guan and Pian Guan together. Punishment is:

    Yin - Si - Shen
    Chou - Wei - Xu
    Zi - Mao
    Chen - Chen
    Wu - Wu
    Hai - Hai
    You - You

    In fact, both Zhen Guan and Pian Guan cannot be in the chart together. If there is then there will be complication.

    Thanks





    Droped page eight [this is my note]


    Sorry for the late reply...busy with work. I am still doing research on this area and hope that other masters can help. This is what I think it is:

    - You use DM vs each EB to find the stage of your DM in for each pillar.
    - You can also analyse pillar by pillar. For example, you analyse Month Pillar, HS vs EB and your HS happen to be Zheng Yin and at Coming-of-age, so, you will have virtuous Mother.

    Note: don't forget, Month Pillar also your parent's pillar - so need to take that into consideration.

    Other masters, please let me know if this is wrong.

    Thanks

    Post Merge: February 24, 2009, 07:09:37 AM

    Quote from: PhantomAdam on February 22, 2009, 02:52:35 AM
    Thank You for the post and translation, very helpful.

    What is an "Eating God chart type", Is that when the Eating God is the strongest element in the chart?

    thank you everyone for your wisdom.

    Primary Qi of HHS in Month EB is EB => Eating God chart type. Suggest that you invest on Master Guan first book.

    Thanks
    Fine young canibal – funny how love is444444444444444
    « Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 07:09:37 AM by learnbazi »

    It is not only about the effect of EB interactions on the HHS, but more importantly on the structural integrity of the chart itself.
    http://www.fivearts.net/index.php/topic,3548.msg39212.html#msg39212


    For the Yuan Hai Zi Peng, will you translate and post it into this forum?

    Will you translate 子平病源生死訣 as well?

    How to use connect the 12 phases with the HS See here: http://www.fivearts.net/index.php?topic=77.0

    Have you got the link for all gods? That would come in handy
    « Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 09:42:26 PM by socrates »

    Online socrates

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    Re: Rob wealth and Self Element Discusion - 5Arts.net
    « Reply #4 on: December 10, 2019, 10:00:50 PM »
    [Hidden post: You need 20 posts to see it. You currently have 602. <font color="black">Join the paid subscription and see this hidden post now.</font>]

    Sorry I don't have the original 5Arts.net URL or post date. I think originally posted by LearnBazi (Calvin Yap). Enjoy and comment.

    ----------------------------------
    劫財入用,骨骼配合至佳。比肩迭迭,一生少病。(此言比肩多,身旺。

    Text quote from  http://a3618.blogbus.com/logs/54174415.html [nofollow]
    八字論命-比肩.劫財,上海五行命理

    Rob wealth and Self Element

    Translation start

    偏印劫刃,出祖離家,外象謙合尚義,內心狠毒無知,有刻薄之意,無慈慧之心。(此言偏印、劫財、羊刃露出,又是忌神,無制無合。)
    When the indirect resource, and rob wealth, and the Yang Ren protrude at the heaven stem, and it act as a inauspicious god, and when these god does not being countered or combined, it denote from outward appearance it looks modest and loyal, but the inner self is vicious and ignorant, mean, and is not compassionate.

    比劫之人氣量小,性傲不馴,有錯不悟。(此言比劫通根透幹,又為日主忌神之人。)
    劫財敗財,好高鶩遠。
    When the Rob Wealth is protrude and well rooted, and it act as the inauspicious god to self, one attribute is proud and arrogant, and does not comprehend one own fault. The Rob wealth will “defeat” the wealth, and these people always overestimating their own strength.

    劫財羊刃兩頭居,外面光滑內面虛。(此言劫財羊刃分別位於年時兩幹,又為忌神。)
    When the rob wealth and the “yang Ren” reside at both end of pillar, outward it looks well groomed, but inwards it diffident and timid. It means the rob wealth and the yang ren is residing at the year stem and the hour stem, and acting as the inauspicious god.

    亡神比劫往來,佛口蛇心。(此言比劫為忌神,比劫又坐亡神,為人口蜜腹劍。)
    When the Rob Wealth is the inauspicious god, and it is sitting on top of a “wang shen”, is malicious and duplicitous.

    身旺,比肩強,應避免營商或從事投機冒險行業,最好是從公職或經營穩定性生意。
    When the self is strong, and the “bi jian” is strong, should avoid undertake or involve in risky speculated investment industries. It’s best to engage in the official position, or engage in a stable business.
       
    劫財入用,骨骼配合至佳。比肩迭迭,一生少病。(此言比肩多,身旺。
    日主弱,用神為正印或比肩幫扶者,主得雙親或兄妹之寵愛,並倍得親蔭或遺產。
    When the self is weak, and the useful god is direct resource, or with the aid of “bi jian”, denote self will have the support and care from both parent and sibling. And might have some share in inheritance as well.

    日值財,時為劫,父興子敗。(此言日支為財,時支為比劫奪財,主自身富貴榮顯,但家業傳到子息手中便開始敗落。)
    When the day branch reside the “direct wealth”, and when the hour branch reside the “rob wealth” element, it denote oneself once is rich and honor, but the family property will start to decline once inherit to later generation.

    比劫重迭,父母壽元難延。(此言比劫多,劫奪財星,一般是父親壽短的標誌。)
    When the “rob wealth” is abundant in the chart, it will seize the wealth star, most of the time it denote the sign of father who have short longevity.

    日主弱,比肩坐日支,主妻子能幹,多得幫助。財旺身弱,有比劫扛財幫身,主妻賢。
    When the self is weak, and the “self” element is sitting at the day branch, it denote self’s wife is capable, and manage to assist self. When the wealth is abundant and the self is weak, but there occur the rob wealth to help and sustain the wealth, denote the person wife is virtuous.
     
    男命若見比肩劫財多,必克妻再娶。比肩劫財,破財傷妻。比劫較多,晚婚有利。羊刃劫財迭迭,花燭重輝之兆。
    For a Man’s life, when there occur abundant of ‘self” element and “rob wealth” element, certainly it will counter the wife and remarried. “self” and “rob wealth” can destruct the wealth and hurt the “wife star”. People with abundant of “rob wealth” in the chart, is advantages to married late.

    梟劫重重,易晚婚。(劫財奪妻星,偏印奪妻星原神傷食,故雲。)
    When the indirect resource and rob wealth is abundant, will married late. (as the rob wealth will rob the wife star, and the indirect resource will hurt the eating god which is the source that birth the wealth)

    比劫如林,兄弟姐妹成群。
    When the “rob wealth” is abundant, will have a lot sibling.

    比劫臨貴人,比劫坐祿和將星為喜,兄弟姐妹富貴。
    “Rob wealth” can attract noble people. When “rob wealth” sitting in the state of “lu” and act as the “jiang xing” and is favorable to self, denote sibling will be prosper and noble.

    殺旺食輕,印弱逢財,得比肩敵殺,主得手足助力。

    When the “7 killing” is prosperous, and the eating god is “weak”, when the “direct resource” is weak, an there occur the wealth, but with the present of “self element” to overcome the “7 killings”, this denote self will have the help of henchman.

    translation end
    ------------------------------------------------------
    I will try and translate the rest bit by bit

    some of the text were quoted from Yuan hai Zi Ping, which is under those poetic chapter.

    It is good that these text comes with the decipher from this author


    « Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 05:40:45 AM by Shi Xiang »


    Rob wealth and Self Element

    日主旺而比劫多,主手足敗家不和。(此言日主強,比劫多,劫奪財星。)
    When the self is prosperous, and there occur abundant of “Bi jian and Bi jie”, denote one’s henchman/ friends will result failure of family business, and does not get along well with them. (It says when the self is strong, and with abundant of Bi Jie, Jie will size the wealth star).
     
    官輕傷重,比劫生傷,主遭手足之累。官弱食傷強,又遇比劫,為兄弟所累。
    When the direct officer is “light” (weak) but the hurting officer is heavy (strong), Bi Jie will give birth to hurting officer, denote self will be weary by subordinate. When Direct Officer is weak, but eating god is strong, will be weary by “brother” (sibling).

    財弱比劫旺,兄弟反目。比劫重重無制伏,暗損門風,兄弟無情。
    When the wealth is weak but the bi jie is prosperous, self will quarrel with sibling. When the Bi Jie is abundant and strong and does not being counter and subdue, 暗損門風, sibling is ruthless and merciless

    比劫羊刃者,兄弟不睦,常犯小人口舌。(此言比劫羊刃為忌神。)
    Chart with Bi Jie and yang Ren, does not get along well with sibling, often found guilty about bad people bickering. (When the Bi Jie and Yang Ren is the inauspicious god)

    日主弱,四柱無比劫印綬,如幼行比劫運,幼年難免孤苦,由堂兄姐或朋友養大成人。
    When the self is weak, and within the four pillar there does not have Bi Jie and Resource, when the self of such formation undergoes “Bi Jie” luck during younger days, will be hard to avoid the lonely life, will be raised or bought up by sibling and with the help of friends ( does not favor by the parents)

    日主弱,四柱無印綬,只依賴比劫幫身,主不得雙親之力而依*手足之福以成家立業。
    When the self is weak, but within the four pillar there does not have Resource, and only relied on “Bi Jie” to assist self to balance the chart. Such a formation of chart will not gain the assistance from both parents, instead will relied on “subordinate” to start a career, and family. (The parent here can meat superior as well).

    劫財羊刃,傷妻破財。(此言身旺,劫財羊刃為忌。)
    “Jie, friend element” Yang Ren, will hurt the wife and destroy the wealth. This manifest when the Jie Cai and Yang Ren is inauspicious.

    劫財羊刃有官殺,台閣之臣。(身不要太旺或太弱。)
    When the occurrence of Jie Cai and Yang Ren come with Guan(Direct Officer) and Sha (7 killings), will gain high authority and position in government sector (I think). (This manifest when the self is not too strong or not too weak)

    比肩逢祿,兄弟名高。(此言比肩坐自身之祿。)
    When Bi Jian sitting on top of “Lu”, or reside in the branch that resulted Lu, denote sibling is honor and high.

    身旺財弱,運行比劫,疾病破財。身弱財多,逢比劫運發財。
    When the self is strong and the wealth is weak, and undergoes the luck of Bi Jie, will befell sickness and lost of wealth. When the self is weak and the wealth is abundant, when undergoes the luck of Bi Jie, will be prosper- (remark: It is not the case when the bi jie from luck is transform to other element).

    命旺,遇比劫大運流年,克父克妻,不利婚姻。

    When the self is prosperous, meeting the luck of Bi Jie in the 10 years luck pillar, denote counter the wife and father, is not favor for marriage.

    生地相逢,壯年不祿。(此言劫印重重,又行日主長生之地,主死。)
    When the Jie and the Direct Resource is abundant and prosperous, and one’s self is undergoing the luck of Chang Sheng to self, denote death.

    遇比用財纏萬貫,比得滋扶。(此言財多身弱,以比劫奪財為用,比劫逢生得助者,主富。)
    When the wealth is too many and the self is weak, Bi Jie is used to seized the wealth. If the Bi Jie is being birth, will prosper (remark: refer to luck).

    夫妻隨娶隨傷,蓋為比肩伏馬。(此言原局財坐比劫之上,行克制比劫的運程可以有婚姻,但再行比劫運程則有生離死別之憂。)
    Within the chart, when the wealth is sitting on top of Bi Jie, when undergoing the luck that can counter the “Bi Jie”, will have marriage. But if it undergoes the luck of Bi Jie, will have the sorrow of separated by the life and death.

    陽剛陰柔,兄強弟弱。陰盛陽衰,弟必強兄。
    -

    比肩要逢官殺制。(此言比肩旺為病。)
    When the Bi Jian act as sickness (too strong), it is prefer to have direct officer of 7 killings to subdue/ counter it.

    日幹無氣,遇劫為強。(此言日主弱,要用比劫扶身。)
    When the self is weak, it is needed for a bi jie to assist self


    « Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 08:15:12 AM by Shi Xiang »


    生地相逢,壯年不祿。(此言劫印重重,又行日主長生之地,主死。)
    When the Jie and the Direct Resource is abundant and prosperous, and one’s self is undergoing the luck of Chang Sheng to self, denote death.


    was just wondering what (undergoing the luck of Chang Sheng to Self) means?

    hi ,my understanding towards the phrase is as following

    for example Ren is chang Shen at Shen.

            DM                      LP
    Ren  Ren   Xin   Ding   Geng
    Wu  Shen  You  Hai     Shen

    undergoes the luck of Shen might dead

    so when the day pillar meets itself it can denote death? does the stem play a role or only the branch?



    http://www.fivearts.net/index.php/topic,1312.15.html

    Hi Learnbazi,

    Thanks. Great translation~O0.

    Would You like to start the discussion?

    Ten Gods (十神 shi shen) also known as Six Gods (六神 liu shen). Ten Gods can be grouped into two categories 吉凶神, ji xiong shen, depending on their characteristics.

    ji shen 吉神 are Zheng Guan, Zheng Yin, Shi Shen and Zheng/Pian Cai

    xiong shen 凶神 are Xiao Shen梟神(or Pian Yin), Shang Guan, Jie Cai and Qi Sha

    Bi Jian is considered as neutral.

    Under the concept of Six Gods, the destructive relationships are,

    Shang Guan       X      Zheng Guan

    Shi Shen           X        Qi Sha

    Zheng Cai           X        Zheng Yin

    Pian Cai            X        Pian Yin

    Zheng Guan        X        Jie Cai

    Qi Sha              X        Bi Jian

    Zheng Yin           X        Shang Guan

    Pian Yin            X        Shi Shen

    Bi Jian              X         Pian Cai

    Jie Cai              X         Zheng Cai

    (the relationships in red are considered as more critical).

    -----
    relic

    « Last Edit: March 15, 2008, 12:45:27 AM by relic »
    For the God that is too strong, the other god is used to control it. (e.g. Shi Shen control Qi Sha). This doesn't take into consideration whether DM is strong or not. Am I right?

    This is far too general. Yes and No.

    Suppose DM is far too weak, likely to end up as cong ge 從格, then Shi Shen can be Ji Shen 忌神 if the chart follow Guan Sha.

    Suppose DM is wood yet born in winter (both water and metal in the chart) we call this han mu xiang yang 寒木向陽, then to apply the concept of tiao hou 調候, where fire Shi Shen is used to control metal Guan Sha. Yes will not take into consideration the strength of DM.

    The concept of liu shen xiang sheng 六神相生 and liu shen xiang ke 六神相克 is important in analyzing bing yao 病藥.

    ------
    relic

    Basically are only production and restraining relationship between ten gods.

    Six Gods Mutually Growth (六神相生 Liu Shen Xiang Sheng).

    All Yin or all Yang Six Gods and Opposite polarity to DM.

    Zheng Yin produces Jie Cai
    Jie Cai produces Shang Guan
    Shang Guan produces Zheng Cai
    Zheng Cai produces Zheng Guan
    Zheng Guan produces Zheng Yin

    All Yin or all Yang Six Gods and Same polarity as DM.

    Pian Yin produces Bi Jian
    Bi Jian produces Shi Shen
    Shi Shen produces Pian Cai
    Pian Cai produces Qi Sha
    Qi Sha produces Pian Yin

    Six Gods Mutually Destruct (六神相克 Liu Shen Xiang Ke).

    All Yin or all Yang Six Gods and Opposite polarity to DM.

    Zheng Yin restrains Shang Guan
    Shang Guan restrains Zheng Guan
    Zheng Guan restrains Jie Cai
    Jie Cai restrains Zheng Cai
    Zheng Cai restrains Zheng Yin

    All Yin or all Yang Six Gods and Same polarity as DM.

    Pian Yin restrains Shi Shen
    Shi Shen restrains Qi Sha
    Qi Sha restrains Bi Jian
    Bi Jian restrains Pian Cai
    Pian Cai restrains Pian Yin

    ------
    relic

    "analyzing bing yao 病藥." ?

    Analyze the chart in terms of weak and strong 旺衰 wang shuai to determine bing yao 病藥. This is how we derived Xi Yong Shen 喜用神.

    Again should be noted that even without looking at wang shuai the influence of ten gods within a single pillar, adjacent pillars, within the chart or LC AP is real, favorable or unfavorable. For example Zheng Guan irregardless of good or bad to the chart should not be clashed within chart, LC or AP and having single combination with Zheng Guan in the chart is acceptable but not many for female chart.

    -----
    relic
    What is LC and AP?

    LC is Luck Pillar or Da Yun 大運

    AP is Annual Pillar or Sui Yun 歲運 or Liu Nian 流年

    Let us discuss this.
    Quote from: learnbazi on March 14, 2008, 07:59:23 AM
    官现月柱且喜官, 受父母痛爱, 一生少劳苦, 为人正直尽则, 重信讲义, 也主兄弟姐妹有功名.
    If Zhen Guan in Month Pillar and favourable, receive love and care from parents, lack hardship in one's life, Character is honest, siblings have scholarly honor of official rank too.

    Looking at month pillar, Stem and Branch. Month pillar represents parents and siblings also a person at young adult age. Having Zheng Guan also denotes one's conduct is generous and intelligent. Born to be wealthy and will have wide experiences. Able to handle matters wisely.

    First the statement is looking at favorable Guan (Xi Guan喜官). When Guan at month branch and favorable, also known as yue ling yong shen 月令用神 ( any yong shen at month branch is fortunate to the chart, parents are wealthy ect), DM is obviously prosperous (旺 wang) or supported by resource element (yin 印). The requirement is that the yun 運 must also support this formation, that is must not enter shang guan yun (傷官運) ect.

    However this does not say much about parents relationships. Month pillar comes with Stem and Branch. Earthly Branch has more influence on the chart and will also affect the Qi of Stem that sit on it.
    When month branch is Guan and month stem is Shang Guan, is known as stem restraining branch (干克支 gan ke zhi), this is not a good relationship.
    (Suppose month stem is Guan and month branch is shang guan then is worst in terms of relationship)
    When month branch is Guan and stem is Jie Cai, is known as branch restraining stem (支克干 zhi ke gan), also not a good relationship.
    Both stem and branch must be mutually supporting (相生 xiang sheng), zheng yin/ zheng guan or zheng cai/ zheng guan. This only indicate the relationship between stem and branch and hence the parents relationship not necessary favorable to the DM or the chart.

    For relationship between DM and parents beside looking at month pillar as favorable and useful (喜用 xi yong) to DM also need to analyze yin印 and cai財 within the chart.

    -----
    relic

    Hi Learnbazi,
    Quote from: learnbazi on March 18, 2008, 07:51:47 AM
    what is the different between what you have stated and the 60 Jia-Zi permutation?

    Certainly will help to know 60 Jia Zi. However should take note that most of the time 6Jia is referring to Qi of HS on EB. ( # 六十甲子旺強衰弱). That is why most use it to predict general annual luck. In Bazi chart also need to consider the Qi of EB that is affected by HS. That is looking at both reference points.

    For example, Jia Shen pillar and Geng Yin pillar

    Jia Shen is known as 'di chong tian 地沖天' or branch clashes with stem or zhi ke gan 支克干, the Qi of Jia is weaken by the Qi of Geng in Shen.

    Geng Yin is known as 'tian ke di 天克地' or stem restraining branch or gan ke zhi 干克支, the Qi of Geng is weaken due to the Qi of Jia in Yin.

    So when looking at metal Qi, Jia Shen is stronger than Geng Yin. When looking at wood Qi, Geng Yin is stronger then Jia Shen.

    When applying this to analyzing chart will give an idea of whether the stem or branch is being restrained or supported etc.
    Quote from: learnbazi on March 18, 2008, 07:51:47 AM
    Also, does the permutation can be applied to other pillar as well ? e.g. hour pillar

    Yes. For example hour pillar represent children pillar, self/career, lower body parts, later life etc. Looking at how the stem and branch interaction will give an idea how the conditions in this pillar.
    For example,

    食神   日主   x    x
    梟神    x      x    x

    having Shi Shen 食神 sitting on Xiao Shen 梟神 in this pillar usually denotes 'ke zi 克子' for male or difficult to conceive for female or relationship among childrens are not good or hardship at later life especially when Shi Shen is Yong Shen but even then the effect will still be felt. Again have to look at the whole chart for sign related to children etc.

    Also when looking at pillar, look at the relationship in relation to DM. For example is the stem mutually grow, restrain etc. Stem denotes review situation for emotion, conflict etc. or on the surface like hand, eye, nose etc, branch denotes hidden situation, emotion, conflict etc. or liver, heart etc. Again not necessary require to look at strength of DM for any signal.

    Sounds like Blindman theory but not so. Blindman is talking about Guest and Host ( 賓主 bin zhu) similar to the concept of 我非我 wo fei wo. However for wo fei wo the approach will take into consideration Yong Shen Wang Shuai 用神旺衰.

    -----
    relic

    Hi Katherine,
    Quote from: katherine227 on March 19, 2008, 08:13:45 AM
    "日座正财, 得妻内助致富.
    DM sits on Direct Wealth, wife help to become rich."

    Does this only apply to a man's chart? How about if a female DM is sitting on 正财?

    Yes, certainly. That is why always read the statement as if only apply to certain chart only.

    x  DM   x   x
    x  正財  x   x

    When DM sitting on Cai, also known as tian ke zhi, the requirements are DM must be wang 旺 and cai is Yong Shen for the chart to be prosper 富貴. Day branch represent spouse palace as well as self. Zheng Cai also represents wife. If this formation is favorable to the chart, that is DM is strong then cai is within reached. As this palace also represents spouse, wife comes from wealthy family. Since it is Yong Shen, wife fortune will in turn assist DM and loving relationship.

    What if it is not Yong Shen? Spouse may still be from wealthy family but not in favorable of DM or unable to assist. As this also relate to self pillar, health will be an issue (cai duo sheng ruo 財多生弱) and due to spouse or self etc.

    So what about female chart? The statement does not refer to female but under description on woman's destiny
    (# nu ming 女命) sitting on Zheng Cai if favorable, receives most loving and caring from husband.

    Remember even when all conditions are met, still need to look for chong ke he 沖克合 with adjacent pillars particularly by Jie Cai, tao hua 桃花 etc. also must not sit on void (空亡 kong wang).

    There are certain pillars that will particularly benefit from this condition under favorable formations, such as Gui Si day pillar.

    -----
    relic



    Hi Learnbazi,
    Quote from: learnbazi on March 17, 2008, 02:30:40 AM
    The part that I am confuse about is "bing yao 病藥". I don't know what it is. I understand that you need to analyse the bazi by doing permutation between gods but what is "bing yao 病藥" ? Perhaps, you care to explain further?

    Also, does this relates to Zi Ping Factor ?

    bing 病 refers to ailment/sickness or disease, that is the ji shen 忌神

    yao 藥 refers to medicine or remedy/cure, that is the xi yong shen 喜用神

    A strong DM chart sees resouce 印 Yin and companion Bi Jie 比劫 as bing. Shi Shang Cai Guan 食傷財官 as yao.

    There are basically few types of yao,

    ke bing 克病
    bing ke 病克
    bing xie 病洩
    bing sheng 病生

    example

    When DM weak and bing at Cai, if using Bi Jie as yao is known as ke bing, or restraining the ailment. If using Yin as yao is known as bing ke, or being restrain by disease.

    If DM is weak and bing at Guan, using yin as yao is known as bing sheng, divulge the qi of disease and support DM.

    If DM is strong and bing at Bi Jie, using Shi Shang as yao is known as bing xie, divulge the qi of disease.

    So when DM is strong and bing at Yin, to use Cai as ke bing which is direct attacking the ailment or Shi Shang as bing ke which in turn being restrain to reduce the qi of ailment. This is not a good remedy also known as second choice yong shen. In fact by understand bing yao, will help in assessing the quality/characteristic and effective of xi yong shen.

    Quote from: learnbazi on March 17, 2008, 02:30:40 AM
    Also, does this relates to Zi Ping Factor ?

    Certainly. Try also Di Tian Sui 滴天髓.

    -----
    relic
     Good stuff. Haven't up to that level yet, still learning Zi Ping. BTW, do you have softcopy of Di Tian Sui? If got time, will try to translate...

    Try the following site:

    http://www.sizu12.com/mlgj/dts/yxy/Dts/dts.htm [nofollow]

    Regards,
    relic

    Hi Robert,
    Quote from: devadog on March 20, 2008, 05:49:31 AM
    Can someone say a bit more about this term, "complicated".

    The 1st statement,

    日支座杀, 官杀混杂, 夫妻易反目, 难得圆满相处

    x      DM    x       x
    x      Sha   Guan  x

    x       DM    x      x
    Guan  Sha   x      x

    above only suggested chart formation. The statement refers to a female chart. When DM sitting on Sha and there is Guan present side by side or in the chart, this denotes complicated relationship between Guan Sha. Certainly affect spouse palace, especially when Guan Sha is xiong 官殺為凶.

    * not to use this statement in the case of tiao hou 調候, adjusting temperate in the chart.

    The 2nd statement,

    时柱有偏官, 和子女缘分较薄. 不过有食制杀, 子女多半会在文学界, 艺术界, 或军正界发挥所学而获得名望.

    Shi Shen     DM     x       x
    Sha           Sha     x       x

    When hour pillar having Shi Shen and Qi Sha, to read Qi Sha as Pian Guan. Hour pillar represents children's pillar, when stem clashes with branch or other way round, denotes bad relationships among children or with children. However since Sha is being restrained by Shi Shen, will see children excel academically ..........

    The 2nd statement does not refer to male or female in particular.

    -----
    relic

    Hi Robert,
    Quote from: devadog on March 21, 2008, 11:44:20 AM
    This recognition of polarity (male's mother being zheng yin - but pian yin fmother or women) makes more sense.

    Yes, certainly when looking at gender specification.
    Quote from: devadog on March 21, 2008, 11:44:20 AM
    I have seen elsewhere that zheng yin is mother for both male and female. (Peter Leung's notes, for example)

    Not sure about that, never read PL notes before.

    Lets see if this will help.
    Quote from: learnbazi on March 14, 2008, 08:01:00 AM
    (3) 正印

    如果正印过强, 则其人可能和子女无缘.
    If Zheng Yin too strong, don?t have destiny (yuan) with children.

    This statement on Zheng Yin refers to Zi Nu 子女 or children. That is to say if Zheng Yin is overly strong will affect the relationships with both male and female children. This does not say anything about male/female DM.

    In general Yin refers to parent(s) or motherly figure. The children here refers to Shi Shang. In liu shen xiang ke 六神相克, Yin restrains Shi Shang, can be interpreted as poor relationships. Yin looks at Bi Jie as children, as Bi Jie looks at Shi Shang as children. In general without taking into account of male and female, to consider Yin (Zheng/Pian) affecting Bi Jie or DM, male or female when interpreting chart.

    (Also for male chart, Guan Sha denotes gender of children yet Shi Shang denotes presence of children. A male chart having Yin restraining Shi Shang also related to children relationships.)

    -----
    relic

    Hi,
    Quote from: devadog on March 20, 2008, 05:49:31 AM
    日支座杀, 官杀混杂, 夫妻易反目, 难得圆满相处.
    Day pillar sitting on Sha and Officer Sha is complicated, there will be quarrel between husband and wife, very difficult to leave happily ever after.

    Can someone say a bit more about this term, "complicated".
    How do we understand that in a chart?

    Quote from: relic on March 20, 2008, 06:25:30 AM
    日支座杀, 官杀混杂, 夫妻易反目, 难得圆满相处

    a)           
    x      DM    x       x
    x      Sha   Guan  x

    b)
    x       DM    x      x
    Guan  Sha   x      x

    above only suggested chart formation. The statement refers to a female chart. When DM sitting on Sha and there is Guan present side by side or in the chart, this denotes complicated relationship between Guan Sha. Certainly affect spouse palace, especially when Guan Sha is xiong 官殺為凶.

    When looking at a chart, see if there is any counterbalancing factor.

    Example, consider chart (a) formation,

    x     DM     x        x
    x     Sha    Guan   x

    DM weak, to look at Guan Sha 官殺 as Sha 煞 or xiong 凶.

    If there is a factor that dissolved the Sha that DM sitting on and turning xiong into ji 吉, DM may just prosper with it.

    consider following,

    x                  DM     x        x
    Shi Shen      Sha    Guan   x
    (combination,  he合)             

    example,

    x        Jia wood      x        x
    Si       Shen           You    x

    when Si on hour branch and combine with Shen, water will in turn support Jia wood. Also water will dissolve You metal to support wood. This is known as sha yin fan sheng 煞印反生. A weak DM in the original chart will be strengthen by this formation and be able to handle Guan.

    Instead of looking at inauspicious chart is actually looking at auspicious one.

    -----
    relic


    Dear All
    For anyone, who wish to learn Ba Zi with sincere heart and willing to share, you can entering this site ( but in Chinese Language ) :
     newbielink:http://www.chinesezhouyi.com/bazi/rumen.htm [nonactive]
    The translation just in Bahasa Indonesia, in English ( i don't know ) maybe quah or relic have it.
    It is enlighten and structural.

    Buying Guan Leong's 10 Gods book may be better for you.   

    http://www.fivearts.net/index.php/topic,1509.0.html




    Officer/Sha is complicated means the chart has Zhen Guan and Pian Guan together. Punishment is:

    Yin - Si - Shen
    Chou - Wei - Xu
    Zi - Mao
    Chen - Chen
    Wu - Wu
    Hai - Hai
    You - You

    In fact, both Zhen Guan and Pian Guan cannot be in the chart together. If there is then there will be complication.

    Thanks





    Droped page eight [this is my note]


    Sorry for the late reply...busy with work. I am still doing research on this area and hope that other masters can help. This is what I think it is:

    - You use DM vs each EB to find the stage of your DM in for each pillar.
    - You can also analyse pillar by pillar. For example, you analyse Month Pillar, HS vs EB and your HS happen to be Zheng Yin and at Coming-of-age, so, you will have virtuous Mother.

    Note: don't forget, Month Pillar also your parent's pillar - so need to take that into consideration.

    Other masters, please let me know if this is wrong.

    Thanks

    Post Merge: February 24, 2009, 07:09:37 AM

    Quote from: PhantomAdam on February 22, 2009, 02:52:35 AM
    Thank You for the post and translation, very helpful.

    What is an "Eating God chart type", Is that when the Eating God is the strongest element in the chart?

    thank you everyone for your wisdom.

    Primary Qi of HHS in Month EB is EB => Eating God chart type. Suggest that you invest on Master Guan first book.

    Thanks
    Fine young canibal – funny how love is444444444444444
    « Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 07:09:37 AM by learnbazi »

    It is not only about the effect of EB interactions on the HHS, but more importantly on the structural integrity of the chart itself.
    http://www.fivearts.net/index.php/topic,3548.msg39212.html#msg39212


    For the Yuan Hai Zi Peng, will you translate and post it into this forum?

    Will you translate 子平病源生死訣 as well?

    How to use connect the 12 phases with the HS See here: http://www.fivearts.net/index.php?topic=77.0

    主弱,用神為正印或比肩幫扶者,主得雙親或兄妹之寵愛,並倍得親蔭或遺產。
    When the self is weak, and the useful god is direct resource, or with the aid of “bi jian”, denote self will have the support and care from both parent and sibling. And might have some share in inheritance as well

    ---Isnt friend/resource helpful only when it shows in luck cycle? My sibling and to a lesser extent mother,help me but I dont get on with sibling well. Strong DM are meddlesome,respect no boundaries and have a defensive/competitive attitude to siblings.Whatever I say they react as if I were attacking. When I`m fed up I can be ruthless yes

    When the direct officer is “light” (weak) but the hurting officer is heavy (strong), Bi Jie will give birth to hurting officer, denote self will be weary by subordinate. When Direct Officer is weak, but eating god is strong, will be weary by “brother” (sibling).

    --yes sibling and friends exhaust me

    日主弱,四柱無印綬,只依賴比劫幫身,主不得雙親之力而依*手足之福以成家立業。
    When the self is weak, but within the four pillar there does not have Resource, and only relied on “Bi Jie” to assist self to balance the chart. Such a formation of chart will not gain the assistance from both parents, instead will relied on “subordinate” to start a career, and family. (The parent here can meat superior as well).

    ---why subordinate? Arent subordinates wealth,what we control?

    My chart  ding ding xin xin
                  wei wei chou chou

    Based on the above I think my chart isnt special. I have artistic talent but lack training(resource)
    I teach but I only have a TEFL.no uni degree.You get the picture.
    I`m in yi wei luck fan yin in which I worked more often away from home city. Next jia wu appears to be the best if Im not follow leader. When I see an atractive girl I tend to leave friends and tell them "ill see you later".Some dont like it but it`s too strong. On the other hand I find friends an hindrance and exhausting as Shi shen suggests.Sometimes I think Im better alone and thats how Ive been in recente years
    « Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 10:20:41 PM by socrates »

    five arts forum

    Re: Rob wealth and Self Element Discusion - 5Arts.net
    « Reply #4 on: December 10, 2019, 10:00:50 PM »
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    Replies: 20
    Views: 801
    Last post November 23, 2019, 10:47:35 AM
    by Goldina88
    Qi Flow Bazi - Resource, Wealth, Officer

    Started by marbleBoard Si Zhu Ba Zi (SZBZ) 四柱八字

    Replies: 3
    Views: 306
    Last post October 24, 2019, 07:31:38 PM
    by Yogiverigud
    Multiple Rob Wealth. Please help to decode.

    Started by Alex TehBoard Request for birth chart reading [FREE]

    Replies: 7
    Views: 302
    Last post October 23, 2019, 05:05:21 PM
    by fan
    Discuss: Relationship Element in A Gay Birth chart

    Started by namle.16Board Request for birth chart reading [FREE]

    Replies: 6
    Views: 376
    Last post October 22, 2019, 10:15:19 PM
    by nam.le
    Cheating & wealth loss?

    Started by zImmortalBoard Zi Wei Dou Shu (ZWDS) 紫微斗数

    Replies: 0
    Views: 182
    Last post October 14, 2019, 09:01:42 PM
    by zImmortal
    Reading on my wealth....

    Started by GeraldBoard Request for birth chart reading [FREE]

    Replies: 1
    Views: 173
    Last post September 23, 2019, 05:02:57 PM
    by johnyqi
    Career/Wealth & Relationship

    Started by TonbBoard Request for birth chart reading [FREE]

    Replies: 1
    Views: 186
    Last post September 19, 2019, 04:58:49 PM
    by johnyqi
    curious about her favourable element s

    Started by nin99Board Request for birth chart reading [FREE]

    Replies: 6
    Views: 295
    Last post September 28, 2019, 01:07:41 PM
    by FlyingKite
    Job element

    Started by gerk89@hotmail.comBoard Request for birth chart reading [FREE]

    Replies: 0
    Views: 127
    Last post September 01, 2019, 09:00:13 AM
    by gerk89@hotmail.com
    Is That True?, All Billionaires have Storage Element?

    Started by nikmatBoard Request for birth chart reading [FREE]

    Replies: 11
    Views: 553
    Last post August 27, 2019, 10:33:46 PM
    by nikmat
    No or weak spouse element in chart does it mean it will jinx wife/husband?

    Started by SunshineVirgoBoard Request for birth chart reading [FREE]

    Replies: 10
    Views: 576
    Last post August 10, 2019, 12:17:50 PM
    by rainmaster
    Job and wealth luck. Please help.

    Started by SenanBoard Request for birth chart reading [FREE]

    Replies: 2
    Views: 300
    Last post July 21, 2019, 05:16:57 PM
    by johnyqi
    Ketidak hadiran wealth element

    Started by AsengricBoard Astrologi Delapan Karakter (Ba Zi)

    Replies: 6
    Views: 497
    Last post August 12, 2019, 12:15:01 AM
    by Asengric
    Self Element - Weak or Strong Fire?

    Started by fendytanBoard Request for birth chart reading [FREE]

    Replies: 17
    Views: 744
    Last post July 17, 2019, 05:39:32 PM
    by FlyingKite
    Favourable Element

    Started by gerk89@hotmail.comBoard Request for birth chart reading [FREE]

    Replies: 13
    Views: 501
    Last post July 12, 2019, 07:05:42 PM
    by Axis
    attack and counterattack element

    Started by qiu21Board Request for birth chart reading [FREE]

    Replies: 3
    Views: 294
    Last post June 19, 2019, 11:18:07 PM
    by qiu21
    Will wealth tomb opened?

    Started by yushinBoard Request for birth chart reading [FREE]

    Replies: 13
    Views: 723
    Last post June 11, 2019, 09:46:31 PM
    by flyingphoenix
    Heavenly stem - Same element

    Started by RedBirdieBoard Request for birth chart reading [FREE]

    Replies: 4
    Views: 330
    Last post June 09, 2019, 10:25:28 PM
    by RedBirdie
    weak day master. what about my wealth?

    Started by rico6Board Request for birth chart reading [FREE]

    Replies: 10
    Views: 481
    Last post May 27, 2019, 11:39:44 AM
    by Chat time
    Weak DM with favorable element

    Started by SuiBoard Request for birth chart reading [FREE]

    Replies: 11
    Views: 588
    Last post May 23, 2019, 11:36:39 AM
    by Sui
    Help read my life, wealth, and spouse palace

    Started by JadelineBoard Zi Wei Dou Shu (ZWDS) 紫微斗数

    Replies: 0
    Views: 247
    Last post May 19, 2019, 07:59:05 PM
    by Jadeline
    Tian fu in wealth palace ZWDS

    Started by ArstevanBoard Request for birth chart reading [FREE]

    Replies: 4
    Views: 473
    Last post July 16, 2019, 01:54:16 PM
    by rengillard
    He want to know his useful god and element ? Will he become rich is this life?

    Started by Wooden riverBoard Request for birth chart reading [FREE]

    Replies: 17
    Views: 931
    Last post June 06, 2019, 07:15:40 PM
    by Wooden river
    career & wealth/ general life reading please

    Started by jj71Board Request for birth chart reading [FREE]

    Replies: 9
    Views: 498
    Last post April 11, 2019, 05:13:52 PM
    by johnyqi
    Career/marriage/wealth

    Started by jwhite997Board Request for birth chart reading [FREE]

    Replies: 17
    Views: 965
    Last post April 12, 2019, 02:48:05 AM
    by jwhite997
    Modern interpretation of Element job or industry examples

    Started by ZackJonesBoard Request for birth chart reading [FREE]

    Replies: 2
    Views: 244
    Last post April 07, 2019, 03:08:17 PM
    by johnyqi

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