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Offline jtorz132759468

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  • You can try to look for Master Ng Choon Point book. Co-author by Leonard Thames.  From this book you will roughly know the frame of ZWDS. It is about the Sihua Flying star ZWDS.

    Thank you for the recommendation. Where can I find this book?

    I have read the book and to be honest, if you don't have a strong foundation, you will be very blurred, it's more like a textbook, better you go to learn from his instructors, perhaps that'll save you more headache and lesser time...

    As written in his book(see the attached), Ziweidoushu(and all other CM or Five Arts) actually come from I Ching/Yijing, so I suggest you have a strong foundation in it first, if you want to learn more about the basic fundamentals of I Ching, can get this book from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/dp/1980375348.

    Mm...yijing first then zwds? Too much of time consummed... Yijing is a philosophy. Many of the time, somewhere or somebook or some master (dunno where or who) will tell you , you need to master yijing in order to know fengshui, bazi, zwds, cm and etc. So far in zwds, fengshui, bazi( may or may not) i have learned do not touched  any of it. Or perhaps I have not reach the level that require any of it, please enlighten...

    Hi Xkfan, if you are able to read Chinese, you may go to any CM bookstore like Wanli and get this new book(https://www.rakuten.com.tw/shop/rbook/product/2012930404153/) or can buy online and get it shipped to you to understand why I said like that, ok? I think most CM aficionados should learn to read Chinese in order to master(not just know) a subject and not having the illusion that any English translation works can convey the depth of ancient Chinese wisdom completely, just like you can't expect someone to be a master of English language without learning the grammars or to be master of Japanese language by using English.

    I Ching/Yijing is not just a philosophical book as many have misperceived it, maybe you were being misled by the School of Meanings and Principles (易理派) masters, the Zhou Yi which has a lot of Confucianism ideologies in it, hence a lot of people will think I Ching is not significant at all as it's so philosophical.

    You can think of I Ching as the ABCDs or 1234 of CM/Five Arts, if you are learning Bazi, Fengshui, Qimendunjia, Ziweidoushu, Liu Ren, Tai Yi, TCM, Dao De Ching, or any Five Arts without building your strong foundation in I Ching first, it's like asking a 5 years old normal child to comprehend high school literature book or solving an Algebra equation, unless the child is a prodigy it's very likely that it's a very steep learning curve or you can think of the process like building a skyscraper, without I Ching, it's like building something on thin air, the foundation is not there and it's very high risk that the building can collapse in the future.

    I am speaking from my own experiences and others coursemates of mine who gave up after finding it difficult or sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't and not like what the "famous masters" claimed during the previews and in class or worse continued with repeating the classes with the same master because they thought they might be able to learn it better the second, third, fourth...n times. :( Maybe you are smarter than me and didn't have to go through the same "yun wong lou"(冤枉路) as I did but I can tell you that I have attended a lot of "famous masters" classes out there who claimed that you can master a CM subject with their 3-4 days course but in the end, I got more missing links in my understanding of those subjects that I paid quite a small fortune to learn, so much so until I decided that I must go to the birthplace where it all began - China - to seek "illuminating masters" and along the way, I managed to meet some who are kind enough to point me the right direction by "going back to the source"(返璞归真), the origin where it all began, I Ching to better understand the ancient wisdom that our ancestors passed down to us.

    Therefore, I have set up a platform for likeminded people who are interested in Chinese culture to come together to learn from "illuminating masters" from China/HK/Taiwan (who are not so commercialised like those "famous masters") who are willing to teach the real ancient Chinese wisdom to those who are willing to learn at cost-effective manner.

    If you wish to learn more, we can get connected and take it from there to avoid hijacking this thread, ok?  ;)

    Yes, please enlighten us. Show us some example yijing used in Fengshui. Thanks !

    Ok, if you are into Fengshui, let me share with you what's the relationship between them.

    I am not sure whether you know about the San Yuan 9 Periods(三元九运) or the Flying Stars that people who are willing to wait in long queue to attend the annual Fengshui convention by some "famous masters" which once you understand I Ching you can skip that and do the Fengshui remedies yourself like where is the Five Yellow sector, where to activate the auspicious Stars in your house/office?

    How about the Luo Shu洛书 or the Magic Square/Nine Palaces (九宫) of how Fengshui is done is derived from Later Heaven Bagua(后天八卦)? And there are also the Eight Mansions School(八宅派) that teaches people how to select their favourable or unfavourable sector according to East 4 Group(东四命), West 4 Group(西四命) by using Heavenly Doctor/Tian Yi(天医), Five Ghosts(五鬼) etc. which can be easily derived from looking at the relationship of the changing Yao(变爻) between the trigrams?

    There are just too many examples of how once you have a strong understanding in the basic fundamentals of I Ching, those questions you always wanted to ask in the class but afraid to or not allowed to will seems like common sense to you as how the "famous master" 
    can tell what happened to you when you just show him/her your business card/photo without asking your Bazi or plotting a chart, that's how powerful I Ching can be as it just an observation of Nature Laws and it is the key that can help you to decipher the codes/messages from the Universe.  ;)
    « Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 01:35:27 PM by jtorz132759468 »

    Offline guhai

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  • [Hidden post: You need login to forum to see it.]
    Dimension beyond the mind, Knowledge beyond horizon,
    Secret beyond imagination, Meditation is the door.

    ~古孩 (Gŭ Hái)~

    Offline jtorz132759468

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    « Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 05:53:29 PM by Administrator »

    Offline ArtofFugue

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  • To those reading: A word of caution....

    Ziwei Origin book (紫微探源), as below, is another ZWDS research book, like Dr Ong's book Astronomical Planetary Basis of the Stars of ZWDS Astrology. It retails at a very high price of S$90+ (RM 265) at Kino and I had asked the staff to unwrap its plastic seal for my free-of-charge browsing (more than 1 month ago). I've to say, it's as interesting as Dr Ong's book. ;D

    As with any research, I urge all to approach with an open mind.... I don't wish to say whose research is "correct" and whose is "wrong", I just keep an open mind. 8)

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    edit: Just want to disclaimer.. I knew about and browsed the Ziwei Origin book a few months ago (it was released circa Feb 2018). I spent about 20 mins browsing it but did not read it in detail as research books are not my main interest. I did not learnt about the book from jtorz's message posted today, ie; I do not rely on forum members' postings to know about the latest chinese CM books. :)

    edit2: I did not recommend this book as research books are not favoured by most members.

    « Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 09:02:00 PM by ArtofFugue »
    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

    Offline ArtofFugue

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  • ........... as how the "famous master" can tell what happened to you when you just show him/her your business card/photo without asking your Bazi or plotting a chart, that's how powerful I Ching can be as it just an observation of Nature Laws and it is the key that can help you to decipher the codes/messages from the Universe.  ;)

    That is under divination.

    Even without showing business card, just by which direction a person walked, I Ching can tell his fortune a few days later!

    http://fivearts.info/fivearts/index.php?topic=2093.msg168531#msg168531
    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

    Offline ArtofFugue

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  • .................

    I Ching/Yijing is not just a philosophical book as many have misperceived it, maybe you were being misled by the School of Meanings and Principles (易理派) masters, the Zhou Yi which has a lot of Confucianism ideologies in it, hence a lot of people will think I Ching is not significant at all as it's so philosophical.
    .................

    Agreed.  I've also mentioned before a few times, I Ching is not a philosophy book.

    http://fivearts.info/fivearts/index.php?topic=13071.msg144447;topicseen#msg144447
    http://fivearts.info/fivearts/index.php?topic=13949.msg149949;topicseen#msg149949
    http://fivearts.info/fivearts/index.php?topic=13949.msg149947;topicseen#msg149947
    « Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 10:02:23 PM by ArtofFugue »
    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

    Online Xkfan

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  • Thanks Jtor for sharing. Hijacking! No no. Just hope that a brick throwed can get jade in return. 8)

    Forum always a good place to discuss and brainstorm. Hope you dont mind to show us more of the yijing essence in fengshui.
    The Sanyuan jiuyun period 7 was overlap by Eryuan bayun of period 8... how to interprete in YIjing? So do I take the Gua 7 or Gua 8?
    On Bazhai, why moving 3rd Yao in order to get Sheng Qi? Why change of 1st and 2nd yao relate to Tianyi? Perhaps your strong yijing can help us to decipher...
    « Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 10:21:57 PM by Xkfan »

    Offline ArtofFugue

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  • If can get jade in return, it's good. But sometimes get rude and vulgar remarks in return, it's disappointing. :(

    But I'll continue to post because I also believe forum is always a good place to discuss and brainstorm. :)
    By people sharing knowledge/info publicly, the info itself does not devalue to become "common internet data which lacks credibility and needs verifying". If everyone thinks in this way, nobody would want to share anymore in order to protect the value and integrity of their knowledge.

    Offline jtorz132759468

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  • If can get jade in return, it's good. But sometimes get rude and vulgar remarks in return, it's disappointing. :(

    But I'll continue to post because I also believe forum is always a good place to discuss and brainstorm. :)

    Ya lor, sometimes it's better to beg to differ than wasting unnecessary effort to convince someone that there is more than one way to view things like I Ching's 错综复杂(the way a hexagram can be viewed).

    I think I have presented my case of how useful the basic fundamentals of I Ching is in helping one to understand Five Arts better instead of just diving into its by-products(such as Fengshui, Bazi, Ziweidoushu, Qimen etc.). Like the saying goes:"Never try to teach a pig to sing", so let just let this thread remain it as it is, Ziweidoushu, instead of talking about Fengshui, I Ching and the rest, which I think if anyone is interested, can just open a new thread to do just that?  ;)     
    « Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 12:31:28 AM by jtorz132759468 »

    Online Xkfan

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  • I dunno whether you are here for sharing, discussing or fishing. You do not need to be so heated with your sentence. Just tell me if I'm offending or you do not have answer for my doubts. And no further discussion from me anymore. Why do you need to create such a bad karma?

    Honestly speaking the way you present your way of Yi still shallow, I would say your experience is only 2 years (most). Or else everything learned is in vain. ???
    « Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 01:53:03 PM by Xkfan »

    Offline jtorz132759468

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  • I dunno whether you are here for sharing, discussing or fishing. You do not need to be so heated with your sentence. Just tell me if I'm offending or you do not have answer for my doubts. And no further discussion from me anymore. Why do you need to create such a bad karma?

    Honestly speaking the way you present your way of Yi still shallow, I would say your experience is only 2 years (most). Or else everything learned is in vain. ???

    Morning Xkfan, I hope I don't offend you by my response to ArtofFugue as that's just a general statement. On reflection, I think the one which think upset you the most would be the "Never try to teach a pig to sing", which I have to apologise because when I search on the internet for English version of  夏虫不可语冰, the best translations of it from https://www.zhihu.com/question/22254667 is that one, so I hope you can accept my sincere apologies if that hurts you so much?

    Getting back to your questions, as I mentioned, I am not ready to hijack this thread of Ziweidoushu and turned it into Fengshui and I Ching related, so since no one is setting up a new thread, I have setup 2 separated threads and we can invite those who are interested to discuss more there, ok?

    Discussion on Eryuan Bayun - http://fivearts.info/fivearts/index.php?topic=16802.new#new
    Discussion on Ba Zhai and I Ching - http://fivearts.info/fivearts/index.php?topic=16803.new#new

    I am very happy to have someone like you who is more knowledgable than me to exchange idea and learn from, as a Chinese educated person, I believe in the Chinese saying: 一山还有一山高"There are mountains beyond mountains, and heavens beyond heavens", so I do not dare and didn't claim that I know everything about I Ching but I am setting up a platform to attract likeminded people in Chinese culture to learn from illiminating masters明师 from China(HK or Taiwan as well) the authentic ancient Chinese wisdom.

    I don't know how you started your learning journey in Five Arts but from the way you asked the questions, I would say that you must have started with the by products of I Ching(Fengshui, Bazi, Qimendunjia, Liu Yao etc.) and went back to the source(I Ching易经) to seek for answers and I hope with my sharing and many other masters and books and Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Ching%27s_influence which shows that I Ching is the soource of Five Arts and our Chinese culture and with that more people will start to be aware of the importance of I Ching and begin with the basic fundamentals first like the Bagua八卦(先天与后天Early and Later Heaven), Five elements(五行), Heavenly Stems and Earthly Braches(天干地支), 64 Hexagram names(64卦名), before learning its by-products(Fengshui, Ziwei, Bazi, Qimen, Plum Blossom, Six Yao, Xuan Kong etc.) to avoid the yuanwanglu冤枉路 that I and many others have gone through, in the end, we will still go back to I Ching to try to find the answers. Nobody including the masters I have came across with will claim that they have mastered I Ching completely as if they were, they can be associated with Fuxi, King Wen and other sages already, even one of my respectable Sinology masters Mr. Nan Huai Jin南怀瑾 dare not say he understands the Book fully.

    In Chinese, we have this saying: "学无先后, 达者为师" which loosely translated as "It doesn't matter when one starts learning, the one who discovers the truth should be the teacher."(https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/54651600.html), so if there is a 11 years old child who can explain to me something I don't know, it doesn't matter whether he/she just spent 2 hours or 2 years to discover the secret, I am ok to recognise that and learn from him.

    With that, I wish all a great day ahead, may all be well and happy in life!
       
    « Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 09:34:24 AM by jtorz132759468 »

    Offline ArtofFugue

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  • Ya lor, sometimes it's better to beg to differ than wasting unnecessary effort to convince someone ..........

    Never argue with obstinate people. 8)
    « Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 08:58:51 PM by ArtofFugue »
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