Author Topic: What is Qi Men Dun Jia?  (Read 12893 times)

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Offline purple star

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What is Qi Men Dun Jia?
« on: January 18, 2014, 01:50:28 AM »
Dear members, please tell me what is Qi Men Dun Jia? I heard from classic kungfu movies/dramas, Qi Men Dun Jia is all about magical hide, seek, and sudden attack to your opponent. What is the uses of Qi Men Dun Jia in modern facebook world?
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 07:30:00 AM by Guest »

Offline KL boy

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Re: What is Qi Men Dun Jia?
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2014, 03:13:11 PM »
bump.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 07:30:00 AM by Guest »
KL Boy is a newbie in bazi. Please be patient and explain the obvious when talking to him

Offline duesouth

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Re: What is Qi Men Dun Jia?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2014, 04:43:16 PM »
Hi,

Know very little about Qi Men Dun Jia (QMDJ). But to start responses to this thread:

QMDJ (literally Wondrous Gate Hidden Jia (Yang wood)) uses location/direction and timing to attain a certain outcome (e.g. in the old days, to win a battle). In QMDJ, there are eight gates (i.e. the ‘men’ in QMDJ) which are assigned to the eight directions. In terms of location/direction, we use the more favorable gates, of which the most usual gate is the Sheng (‘life’) gate (obviously each of the eight gates has its use). In terms of timing, convert the Year-Month-Day-Hour into the year, month, day and hour charts (i.e. four charts). An ideal time is when all four show the gate we want e.g. Sheng gate. But commonly the focus tends to be on the day and hour, rather than having to wait for the matching year and month to come along.

I look forward to the forum’s QMDJ experts to explain.

Cheers,
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 07:30:00 AM by Guest »

Offline zwdsflying

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Re: What is Qi Men Dun Jia?
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2014, 01:38:42 AM »
Qi Men Dun Jia, from the name has different interpretation.  Some blokes conclude the Qi refers to the 3 important trinity stems 'San Qi' (Yi, Bing, Ding) that are as important as the Doors 'Men'.  There is the usual group that simply conclude the Qi Men refers to the 'Mysterious Doors' and hence attention should only be centered on the door.

Despite the numerous debates, many modern practitioners have extended the application of Qi Men into new fields with mixed results and often at a steep fees.

Nevertheless, at the base level, one application is to 'use location/direction and timing to attain a certain outcome'.  More accurate depiction is to improve one chances realizing a outcome in a fluid and delicate situation.  The Hour School appears to be the most popular as 1080 charts seems to be a good representation of daily events as compared to the highly generic nature of the year, month and day charts.  While the Hour School is united in promoting their 1080 charts over the day, month and year school, they recently has fought among themselves over the different methods in the following

1. Imperial Qi Men vs Non Imperial Qi Men
The old debate between Zhi Run vs Chai Bu Ju determination.  Each faction has credible defence and counter points but sadly there are very few studies in any books other than the lengthy theoretical debates.

2. Rotating vs Flying School
Less bad blood between these two groups because the Flying School is less visible and the Rotating School always almost enjoys disproportionately media and books exposure.

Example of a Rotating School Hour Qi Men Dun Jia chart.



However do not be fooled by the 1080 charts, if one considers the interactions among the entities within a palace, interaction among the palaces, the level complexity will greatly increase.  Therefore Qi Men, while is rather versatile, is primarily used as a date selection system.  This system hence complement the missing 'remedy' aspects from other life destiny techniques.  For example, in Bazi and Zi Wei, the secret sauce are usually missing to resolve a particular problem and the standard practice is to use other geomancy methods to address the problem at hand.  With the application of Qi Men Dun Jia theories for delicate situations,  the window of opportunity has been widen as nearest best hour can be used and the location can be selected to break a delicate deadlock.

As the duesouth has noted, there are numerous ingenious methods promoted by many schools recently but the standard practice is to use the following points;

1. Good doors
2. Good stems
3. Good auxiliary entities, 9 Stars, 8 Deities.
4. Context palace that has good doors and stems do not clash with each other (each palace has a elemental aspects that is similar to the stems and doors).
4. Day master stem or Tai Sui (birth year stem) is aided by earlier entities discussed .
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 02:48:58 AM by Administrator »

Offline George

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Re: What is Qi Men Dun Jia?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2014, 09:55:53 PM »
Hi zwdsflying,

thankyou for the reply. But I don't understand a thing about your reply and you seem knowledgeable in QMDJ. Please consider writing series of introduction tutorial for beginners like me and others.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 07:30:00 AM by Guest »

Offline duesouth

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Re: What is Qi Men Dun Jia?
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2014, 12:17:21 PM »
Hi George,

While we wait for zwdsflying and other forum experts to opine, you may wish to read JY's newspaper article introducing QMDJ to the lay person:
http://http://www.joeyyap.com/fengshui/article.asp?ArID=679

Extract:
"Qi Men Dun Jia has been around for the last 3,000 years and is a technique for calculating time and space. It is used to pinpoint exact and precise moments in time in which to undertake a specific action; hence, its popularity in military strategy and military campaigns in ancient China. "
...
In ancient China, imperial astrologers ...had the three Oracle Methods:
• Tai Yi Shen Shu,
• Liu Ren Shen Ke and
• Qi Men Dun Jia,
which were used to forecast or predict outcomes in relation to aspects of time and space.  

Tai Yi was used to divine the big events that happen with countries, such as earthquakes, big hurricanes, massacres and other natural disasters. With modern technology, this method, of course, has become less relevant.  

Liu Ren was mostly used for divining the outcomes of daily personal events – due to the pace of life in the 21st century, where people are often making decisions every 10 seconds, usage of Liu Ren is mainly limited to important decisions.  

Qi Men was generally used for military activities, and largely to determine not just the right time to act (attack the enemy) but what to do (attack where) and when to undertake that action (when to attack).
...
The He Tu, Lou Shu, 9 Palaces, the 9 Stars, The Constellations, the 8 Directions, the principle of the 5 Elements, and Yin and Yang all also form the basic principles of Qi Men.

It is a slightly more expansive system because it actually combines both the energy computation that we associate with feng shui with the astronomical calculations associated with BaZi, or Zi Wei.
"

[end extract]

Cheers,
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 07:30:00 AM by Guest »

Offline George

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Re: What is Qi Men Dun Jia?
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2014, 02:01:42 PM »
hi duesouth,

thanks for the article. I think so far most people I met discourage me to learn everything from JY. I met one former staff and he also had nothing positive about JY materials. His notable quotes "if you want real stuff, try elsewhere" and "... export quality stuff only for westerners".
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 07:30:00 AM by Guest »

Offline zwdsflying

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Re: What is Qi Men Dun Jia?
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2014, 02:56:37 PM »
No, I am not a Qi Men master, just a bloke who read too many Qi Men literature and variants

Date selection example as reproduced from my blog

Friday 13 Aug 2010, 16:18 GMT+8

Hr      Day    Mth    Year
Jia     Yi      Jia      Geng
Shen  Wei    Shen   Yin
3        7       3         3            (Combination of 10 but not so useable)
9        6       9         1

Let us assume that there is a nice time using Xuan Kong Da Gua date selection but sadly the hour is not so usable but in life, we do not often have a choice. 

Taking liberties with this example, let us constrain ourselves that we have a delicate  matter at hand and we wish to locate the best sector for the hour.  Using Qi Men Dun Jia, we can quickly plot a chart and this is what we have now.

We will pick south east for this particular example if implementing geomancy cures.

Why?

丙奇相旺: Seek wealth, edge, meet people, marriage, travel, trade. 

This is a standard Qi Men Dun Jia formation, nothing secretive, just an application of simple concepts.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 02:50:57 AM by Administrator »

Offline zwdsflying

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Re: What is Qi Men Dun Jia?
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2014, 01:23:22 PM »
This is a rather secretive and rare system of Qi Men Dun Jia that draws its inspiration from the Early Heaven 8 Trigrams and uses the 64 Hexagrams extensively as compared to the 9 Palaces Qi Men Dun Jia.  Now Cyril has written a good introductory section in his website so I will not repost his article.

The Ju determination uses Zhi Lun 直润 (Imperial Qi Men).  A good English translation will be intercalary since it is a very clever way of arranging the 18 Ju to fit into 365.25 days in a year.

The old problem of fitting 64 hexagrams into the 60 Jia Zi remains.  This is similar to the problems faced when fitting the 10 stems in the 9 or 8 palaces (Flying School or Rotating School).

The 5.625 divisions at the basic level, requires very very very very precise measurements, hence this solution will do very well in large properties or graveyard settings.  Dynamic applications are ruled out.

This system gels well with Xuan Kong Da Gua date selection since both systems relies on the clever and intricate arrangements of the 64 hexagrams.  The adherent of this system will like to cite that the 64 Hexagram Qi Men is a marked improvement over Xuan Kong Da Gua date selection as proper time selection will result in higher chances of activating the desired outcome in a delicate situation.  This is an intrinsic property of Qi Men Dun Jia.

Many sites do hawk the 'pirated' Zeng Zi Nan's materials on 64 Hexagram Qi Men Dun Jia.  Usually the Doors and Heaven Plate rings are present in those book,  the other rings 9 Stars, Eight Deities are missing or are used differently by various schools of this system or retained as part of their school's advanced teaching.

This system is rather popular in Fujian area before the Communist victory in 1949.  It has a foothold in Taiwan after the 1949 Communist takeover. 

But there are very sparse materials on this topic. 

The next screen capture shows a typical implementation of the 64 Hexagram Qi Men chart as part of the series on the various developments and variants in Qi Men Dun Jia.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 02:54:25 AM by Administrator »

Offline ylliw

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Re: What is Qi Men Dun Jia?
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2014, 07:43:04 PM »
Hi zwdsflying,

Thanks for sharing.

Can anyone share your experience using the qmdj+xkdg method as described by zwdsflying?

Offline baziindublin

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  • Re: What is Qi Men Dun Jia?
    « Reply #10 on: October 07, 2014, 06:55:40 AM »
    hi duesouth,

    thanks for the article. I think so far most people I met discourage me to learn everything from JY. I met one former staff and he also had nothing positive about JY materials. His notable quotes "if you want real stuff, try elsewhere" and "... export quality stuff only for westerners".

    Where do you get the real stuff from let me know and ill buy asap.   ;) Do you know any real Masters looking for one of those as well.  ;D
    All praise to Jehovah.  Jehovah gives birth to Qi.

    Offline baziindublin

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  • Re: What is Qi Men Dun Jia?
    « Reply #11 on: October 07, 2014, 07:02:24 AM »
    Hi zwdsflying,

    Thanks for sharing.

    Can anyone share your experience using the qmdj+xkdg method as described by zwdsflying?

    Don't know too much about qmdj but I think people use it to defeat their opponent by forecasting what will happen and finding out their opponents weaknesses and then sitting their opponent in a bad direction and they sit in a good direction. Something like that I think.  Big business hire qmdj consultants to win a business deal.
    All praise to Jehovah.  Jehovah gives birth to Qi.

    Offline duesouth

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    Re: What is Qi Men Dun Jia?
    « Reply #12 on: October 07, 2014, 09:15:30 AM »
    Hi baziindublin,

    For a QMDJ newbie like me, I found Jo Ching's Qi Men Dun Jia: The Ancient Art of War At Your Fingertips book informative.

    I posted my review of the book at http://fivearts.info/fivearts/index.php?topic=944.0.

    Cheers.

    Offline zwdsflying

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    Re: What is Qi Men Dun Jia?
    « Reply #13 on: October 07, 2014, 11:57:51 PM »
    Hi zwdsflying,

    Thanks for sharing.

    Can anyone share your experience using the qmdj+xkdg method as described by zwdsflying?

    Don't know too much about qmdj but I think people use it to defeat their opponent by forecasting what will happen and finding out their opponents weaknesses and then sitting their opponent in a bad direction and they sit in a good direction. Something like that I think.  Big business hire qmdj consultants to win a business deal.

    Big businesses do not hire Qi Men Dun Jia consultants, they hire expendable managers to improve their businesses.

    Of all the 5 Arts, Qi Men Dun Jia is the worst if you overly emphasize the competitive nature of it.

    Why?

    Because its nature is competitive.  To use Qi Men and not be influenced by that competitive streak is most important else life is reduced to win or defeat, gain or loss or the zero sum game.  In fact, think, using Qi Men strategy that involves harming others is the worse art form, to be disdained and despised despite the glory attained.

    Bazi and Zi Wei are the gentle arts because they stress on the domain of life via shu, energy phase via Yin/Yang interactions.  Through they have limited utility to change the future, you can deduce your strengths and weakness and work through them to lead meaningful lives.

    Qi Men Dun Jia obeys 3 laws, similar to the 3 Laws of Bazi/Zi Wei, plagiarized from Thermodynamics.

    Luck is generally conserved
    I always read with amusement that some lucky chaps may tell you after applying Qi Men Dun Jia, they strike a wind fall, but if you analyse their chart and family background, it becomes plainly evident that the rich chap is already lucky or rich (yes, you have to listen to their brags about how they spend their wealth) and would have a windfall unless he shoots himself in his own foot.  So now the chap thinks he owes it to Qi Men Dun Jia and well, a lucky chap who learns Qi Men Dun Jia is only a lucky chap who knows some Qi Men Dun Jia.  Now if Qi Men Dun Jia is really so great in lottery or windfall, then perhaps Singapore Pools should ban Qi Men Dun Jia masters.  So never skip your Bazi or Zi Wei chart and be taken for a ride.


    You always get more bad charts with time or it is harder to get a good chart but easier to get a er..... dodgy chart or simply it is hard to get a good chart.

    Now there are more bad formations in Qi Men Dun Jia than good formations, so it is a matter of time that you end up with more bad charts or are forced to work with lesser charts, so its a matter of experience or ingenuity to use the bad charts.

    There is no perfect Qi Men chart
    This is self evident as there is no such thing as a perfect Bazi or Zi Wei chart.
    « Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 12:10:23 AM by zwdsflying@yahoo.com »

    Offline baziindublin

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  • Re: What is Qi Men Dun Jia?
    « Reply #14 on: October 08, 2014, 06:30:51 AM »
    Hi baziindublin,

    For a QMDJ newbie like me, I found Jo Ching's Qi Men Dun Jia: The Ancient Art of War At Your Fingertips book informative.

    I posted my review of the book at http://fivearts.info/fivearts/index.php?topic=944.0.

    Cheers.

    Hi Duesouth I know of Master Jo Ching. He is very competent Master. I look foward to learning QMDj and another book to purchase. Tks for the tip. ;D
    All praise to Jehovah.  Jehovah gives birth to Qi.

    five arts forum

    Re: What is Qi Men Dun Jia?
    « Reply #14 on: October 08, 2014, 06:30:51 AM »
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